Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] first known map of hnnisv tridominium & its trilines & tripoint
Date: Oct 29, 2006 @ 20:54
Author: aletheia kallos (aletheia kallos <aletheiak@...>)
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> ok goodhttp://encarta.msn.com/map_701512830/Gulf_of_Fonseca.html
> so assuming if you would for now that the 1900
> agreement delimits hnni in the gulf only within the
> 3nm belt
> we would have as a result no hnnisv tripoint per se
> there in the gulf
> nor anywhere else
> but an inner hnnisv tridominial triarea instead
>
> so in effect
> at this only multi overlapping territorial
> convergency
> in the world
> a potential multi point becomes expanded or exploded
> instead into an actual multi area
>
> & its complementary multiarea
> aka the outer tridominium at the gulf closing line
> is topologically quite distinct from the inner one
> in
> being a triarea without a triconvergency
> for it is sandwiched between only 2 of the 3
> constituent sovereign territories rather than wedged
> in among all 3
>
> so what we would be or really are looking at here
> all together
> is a multipoint that has exploded on the spot into a
> multiarea
> plus
> a much larger discontiguous or exclavic multiarea
>
> & i would add that this relative size difference
> between the 2 areas is despite the fact that the
> sketch map suggests the inner one would be much
> larger
> than the outer one
>
> for in reality it would be quite the contrary
> as the sketch map is mistaken in showing the inner
> triarea widening to the east
> where it actually must shrink & narrow into a long
> tail
>
> just as mistaken as it is btw in suggesting the
> outer
> triarea ends at the gulf closing arrow
>
> or in suggesting that the 3nm limits continue as
> such
> outside the gulf
>
> for after all it is only a crude sketch
>
> & as you may be able to judge if you compare the
> maps
> again with everything we believe we know about the
> legal tridominium
>
>http://www.laprensa.com.sv/nacion/Las%20aguas%20en%20condominio.pdf
> the outer triarea will comprise more than 100 square=== message truncated ===
> nautical miles of combined territorial & internal
> seas
>
> while the inner one
> being perhaps equally as long or longer but nowhere
> near as wide
> will comprise only a small fraction of that area
>
> --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
>
> > When I wrote of an inner sinus within the gulf's
> > southeastern lobe that
> > was surrounded by the littoral belts of Honduras
> and
> > Nicaragua, I was
> > not looking at the LA PRENSA sketch map, the link
> to
> > which had been lost
> > at the time. What I thought I remembered as
> > littoral belt overlap
> > between these two states in the vicinity of the
> > kilometer scale was
> > erroneous. While there is an inner sinus (whether
> > partitioned or not),
> > it does involve about a mile of closure by the
> > Salvadorian littoral belt
> > at its western end.
> >
> > You are correct that our next resort must be to
> the
> > 1917 volume of AJIL
> > or another source of the 1900 HNNI agreement.
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@...>
> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] first known map of
> > hnnisv tridominium & its
> > trilines & tripoint
> >
> >
> > > wow yes thanx again
> > > & understood & agreed again
> > > up to a point
> > >
> > > but still i hesitate to abandon the idea of the
> > inner
> > > tridominial area
> > >
> > > the unseen 1900 hnni agreement may well preclude
> > the
> > > existence of such an area
> > > as you seem to assume
> > > & perhaps we wont know for sure til we actually
> > read
> > > it
> > >
> > > but the judgment does indicate in paragraph 405
> > that
> > > the delimitation effected by that agreement was
> > > substantially an application of the equidistance
> > > principle
> > > after having just in paragraph 404 reiterated
> the
> > > principle of the 3 mile littoral belts of
> > exclusive
> > > jurisdiction
> > > about which there doesnt seem to be any question
> > > within the gulf
> > >
> > > outside the gulf there may well be up to 12nm of
> > > territorial seas
> > > but inside the gulf there appears to be no basis
> > for
> > > assuming any exclusively sovereign waters beyond
> > the
> > > various 3nm littoral belts
> > >
> > > so i have no difficulty seeing & agreeing that
> the
> > > equidistance principle may have been employed in
> > the
> > > past & or may be hypothetically invoked in the
> > present
> > > or future to delimit areas where the 3nm belts
> > overlap
> > > of which there are clearly 2 shown on the sketch
> > map i
> > > began with
> > > & a third inferrable off frame to the right
> > > but i still dont see how equidistance could have
> > been
> > > used to divvy up the enclosed area in the inner
> > gulf
> > > that is beyond all 3 of the 3nm belts
> > >
> > > moreover i dont yet see how it could be fair to
> > assume
> > > that there even are any waters in the gulf
> > completely
> > > surrounded by the hn & ni belts
> > > even if it were fair to assume that these
> > countries
> > > had the right to appropriate & or allocate such
> > waters
> > >
> > > --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> After an examination of your new-found PDF
> file,
> > I
> > >> must change my
> > >> earlier opinion that the central portion of the
> > >> southeastern lobe of the
> > >> gulf constitutes a second tridominial area
> > distinct
> > >> from that along the
> > >> central segment of the gulf's closing line.
> The
> > >> judgment of the court
> > >> finds a tridominium in the gulf, but makes it
> > >> subject to two physical
> > >> limitations: (1) the three-mile littoral belts
> > >> previously agreed to by
> > >> the states, and (2) the 1900 agreement between
> > >> Honduras and Nicaragua.
> > >> I had first assumed that the latter pertained
> to
> > >> their land boundary's
> > >> intersection with the gulf, but the matter is
> > >> specifically addressed in
> > >> paragraphs 404 (PDF page 250) and 413 (PDF
> pages
> > 254
>