well lowell since this adventure was already proposed
& begun by you in 18444ff
& cheered & abetted by me in 18447ff
i dont know what i can add to it now while waiting for
robert to deliver on these new prospects
except that it is conceivable that his entry into the
mix might either speed you on your way or else slow
you down some more

however he has already come back in today with word
that a program exists for predicting ellicott mound
locations
so you may well want to really slow down until that
catches up with us

but
also in his preliminary response
which i have attached below in its entirety tho its
overall relevancy for louisiana is mostly peripheral
comes definite word of a mound number 21 at thompsons
creek
in case you can & would just cut directly to the chase
& bag that one without further ado

also noteworthy in the following text is the news that
the public land survey is indeed not in synch with the
mounds thereabouts
so any faint hopes that we formerly had of finding an
ellicott mound that is also a tricounty point on the
lams state line are effectively or mostly dashed
herewith
thus reducing what was potentially a multipointing
quest to a purely academic one in all probability

not at all dashed here however is ellicotts reputation
as a party dog & indian trickster
which you may also recall from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/8462

Greg Spies of Coden, AL has a computer program which
will predict the location of the mounds within a few
feet. In 2002, we used Troy State Geomatics students
to get accurate GPS for Ellicott Mound #381, #299 and
#231.

Professional Surveyor September 2004 Volume 24 Number
9

History Corner: Major Ellicott's Triangulation:
Establishing the Boundary Between the Choctaw and the
Creek Nations Across the Mobile-Tensaw River Delta,
circa 1798, Part 1
Gregory Spies, PLS
No doubt Major Andrew Ellicott was in a state of
apprehension, skirting the coast of Spanish West
Florida, as he impatiently approached Mobile. He was
piloting the Sally through Pass aux Baron off Cedar
Point as he entered the muddy and roiled waters of
Mobile Bay. As the compass needle turned to the north
and the Sally turned into the wind cutting through the
whitecaps, a wearied Ellicott reflected on the events
that had transpired during his stay in New Orleans and
wondered what obstacles lay ahead for the joint
U.S.-Spanish boundary commission.
This was the maiden voyage of the United States
schooner that would be Major Ellicott's headquarters
for the remainder of the Florida expedition. He had
acquired a hull built of oak and cedar in New Orleans,
outfitted her, and had named her for his wife.
Ellicott, appointed by George Washington as Boundary
Commissioner on the part of the United States to carry
into effect Article 3 of the Treaty of San Lorenzo el
Real, had justified the government expenditure on the
schooner by recording in his journal:
". . . that it would be impossible to convey our
apparatus, baggage and provision wholly by land; a
vessel to carry the heavy articles was therefore
wanting, calculated to follow the coast, and ascend
the rivers, to or near the points where the line of
demarcation crossed them. With this, another object
which appeared of considerable importance was
combined, which was to obtain as accurate a knowledge
as possible of the sea coast, and of the navigation of
the rivers that rise in the United States, and fall
into the Gulf of Mexico."
His route from New Orleans to Mobile had taken him
east between the mainland coast and the low sandy
barrier islands that protect the historic inland sound
from the Gulf of Mexico. Ellicott's crew consisted of
two "illiterate deserters from a British privateer" he
had hired in New Orleans. Ellicott chose to navigate
the Sally himself. The other passengers aboard
consisted of a cook, also hired in New Orleans, and
seventeen soldiers from the boundary commission's U.S.
Army escort; the other thirteen soldiers assigned to
the U.S. survey party he had left at the Pearl River.
He was anxious to be reunited with his surveyors whose
orders were to rendezvous at the end of the compass
line on the Mobile River.
Through the Choctaw Nation
For over two-and-a-half months, Ellicott had sparse
communication with the joint U.S.- Spanish survey
expedition as they made their way eastward running the
compass line through the Choctaw Nation. Ellicott had
left the surveyors at the Pearl River departing in a
canoe taking with him half of his military escort to
meet with the Spanish Governor of Louisiana, Manuel
Gayoso, in New Orleans. Ellicott had left orders for
David Gillespie, who had replaced Thomas Freeman as
the U.S. surveyor, to mark the boundary going back
west along the first compass line to the mile post in
Mound 21 at Thompson's Creek. Ellicott's son, Andy,
was a chainman on Gillespie's crew. The surveyor on
the Spanish side, Daniel Burnet, had been instructed
to run the second guide line from the Pearl River to
the Mobile River under the protection of the Spanish
military escort.
Major Ellicott's purpose in sidetracking to New
Orleans ostensibly was to represent the U.S. in a
ceremony where he and Gayoso signed a formal
declaration officially approving the boundary as
marked thus far. Interestingly, Ellicott's visit
coincided with Mardi Gras or the "carnival" season.
Ellicott's Choctaw Treaty
In Natchez, before the commencement of the survey,
Ellicott had been warned of possible harassment from
the Choctaws. To counter this threat, Ellicott had
entered into a secret and evidently unauthorized
treaty with Chief Franchammassatubba of the Choctaw
Nation, promising him that the U.S. government would
provide arms, ammunition, annuities, and trade goods
in return for safe passage of the boundary commission
through their nation.
Even before Ellicott had left the Pearl River, the
impatient Choctaws had begun to demand their guns,
money, and goods. Winthrop Sargent, Governor of the
Mississippi Territory, wrote the U.S. Secretary of
State, Thomas Pickering, informing him that the
Choctaws "have indeed cause of complaint, for by Mr.
Ellicott's Indian Communications, it appears they have
been promised very much, and I verily believe as yet
Little has been performed."
As the Major made his way up Mobile Bay towards the
Mobile River, his immediate concern was not with the
Choctaw demands but the persistent flow of
intelligence that certain Creek factions were planning
to put a stop to the marking of the boundary if he
crossed the Mobile -Tensaw River Delta into Creek
territory.
The Sally entered the mouth of the Mobile River
passing the Town of Mobile and the aging French Fort
Conde' occupied by the Spanish authorities. It would
take four days to maneuver the Sally 33 miles up the
winding river to the surveyors' camp located at the
end of the compass line on Seymour's Bluff. Ellicott
remarked that:
"The Mobile is a fine large river, and navigable some
distance above the boundary for any vessel that can
cross the bar into the bay. One square rigged vessel
has been as high as Fort St. Stephens in latitude 31 º
33' 44". When the river is low, the tide ebbs and
flows several miles above the line, and is sometimes
observed as high as Fort St. Stephens; but when full
there is little, if any tide above the city of Mobile.
It was in the latter state when I ascended it, and
notwithstanding the current being constantly against
us, and but little fair wind, we reached the place of
our encampment north of the boundary in four days, my
vessel was 38 or 40 tons burthen. About six miles
north of the boundary, the Tombeckby and Alabama
Rivers unite, and after accompanying each other more
than three miles, separate: the western branch from
thence down to the bay, is called the Mobile. The
Alabama retains its name, until it joins some of its
own waters, which had been separated from it for
several miles, and then takes the name of Tensaw,
which it retains until it falls into the bay. The
easiest way from the Gulf of Mexico by water into the
United States, is up those rivers, the navigation of
each being equally good."
Into the Creek Nation
The flood water that retarded the Sally from
progressing upriver towards the camp was later to
factor into the logistics of projecting the boundary
eastward across the river delta which was the natural
boundary between the Creek and Choctaw nations.
Ellicott's concern about the Creek threat was
heightened by reports he received when he reached the
surveyors' camp on Seymour's Bluff. Ellicott recorded
in his journal:
"We had now passed through the Chocktaw nation without
interruption, but from the conduct of some Creeks or
Muscogees, who had visited our camp, it was evident we
should meet with difficulties from that nation. I
therefore sent off on the 23rd of March, a special
messenger to Col. Hawkins, our principal agent of
Indian affairs for the southern department, requesting
an interview with him, and some principal chiefs, at
Pensacola about the 20th of April following, that we
might fall upon some plan to ensure safety to our
party, and success to the execution of our business."
Ellicott's Astronomical Observations and the Ellicott
Stone
When Ellicott arrived at Seymour's Bluff, he found
that the make-shift astronomical observatory, a worn
and tattered U.S. Army tent, had already been erected.
Interestingly, the surveyor's camp was located only a
few hundred yards south of Grog Hall, the only tavern
within 30 miles. On the 18th of March, Ellicott set up
the zenith sector, astronomical circle and transit and
equal altitude instrument. A course of astronomical
observations were begun and completed on the 9th of
April. Ellicott records the results of his
astronomical observations:
"From the results of the above observations, the
compass line was too far North by 1' 23".7, or 518.55
perches, which distance was carefully laid off to the
south, and a stone set up at the termination, marked
on the north side U.S. Lat 31 1799,- and on the south
side DOMINOS de S.M.C. CAROLUS IV, Lat. 31 1799.- From
this stone, the line was corrected back (to the Pearl
River) . .

History Corner: Major Ellicott's Triangulation

Gregory Spies, PLS

Part 1 of this article appeared in the August issue.
The Triangulation
"On our arrival at the end of the compass line on the
Mobile River, one serious difficulty presented itself,
that was the continuation of the line through the
swamp, which is at all times almost impenetrable; but
at that season of the year absolutely so: being wholly
inundated:- But, fortunately we found in the
neighborhood of our camp a small hill, the summit of
which was just elevated above the tops of the trees in
the swamp. From the top of this hill, we could plainly
discover the pine trees on the high land, on the East
side.
Upon ascertaining this fact, we sent a party through
to the other side, (along the water courses, by which
the swamp is intersected in various directions), with
orders to make a large fire in the night with
light-wood; the same was likewise to be done on the
hill before mentioned, to obtain nearly the direction
from one place to the other. The atmosphere was much
too filled with smoke, to discern a flag, or other
signal, the woods being on fire on both sides of the
swamp.- It happened unfortunately that the day before
our fires were to be lighted, the fires in the woods
had extended over almost the whole of the highlands,
on both sides of the swamp; by which so many dead
trees were set on fire, that there was no possibility
of discriminating between them, and our fires. -It was
then agreed that the parties should light up, and
extinguish their fires a certain number of times;
making stated intervals. -This succeeded so well, that
we became certain of not taking a wrong fire in
determining the angles. -Contrary to our expectation,
a heavy rain fell on the same night, a short time
after we had finished the experiment, and extinguished
all the fires in the woods,- The storm cleared off
with a strong north-west wind, which carried off all
the smoke, and enabled us to determine the angles in
the day, by erecting signals, which was accomplished
on the second day of April. -This work was connected
with the observatory in the following manner. At the
observatory A (see Figure 1) a meridional line was
traced, by taking the greatest elongations of Ursae
Minoris, both east, and west, with the transit and
equal altitude instrument: -equal distances were
carefully measured in each direction, and a fine mark
placed at the termination of each measurement, -the
distance between those marks was accurately bisected,
and a fine mark placed at the point of bisection for
the meridian. The same operation was performed a
second time, and although the difference in result,
appeared too trifling to need any attention, it was
nevertheless bisected, and that point of bisection
taken for the meridian, -which designated by AE and
terminated by a parallel of latitude drawn through B.
-From the point A, a vista was opened to the summit of
the hill at B: from B, to C, another vista was opened,
which formed the base: the base was too short if it
could have been avoided; but the hill would not admit
of its being any longer. -D the signal on the east
side of the swamp. -The angles were measured on the
horizontal arc of the astronomical circle already
mentioned. -This instrument by means of a vernier is
graduated to 5," which by the help of a microscope may
be easily subdivided by the eye, into 1 1/2 or 2
seconds. The measurements, and angles stand as below.
AB = 310.8 perches
BC = 70.356 perches
BAE = 37 58' 48"
ABD = 57 43' 21"
BCD = 139 23' 58"
DBC = 39 47' 1"
CDB = 0 49' 1"
From this data, AE is found to be equal to 244.9
perches, BE to 191.26 perches, BD to 3211.65 perches,
EF to 2987.44 perches, and DF to 316.7 perches. DB
being considered as an arc of a great circle, forming
with the prime vertical an angle of 5 42' 9" to the
north, being the excess of angles BAE and ABD above
90. From the result of the observations for the
latitude, the observatory appeared to be too far north
by 518.55 perches, which is designated by AH. It
therefore follows, that the signal at D, was too far
north by the sum of the distances DF, EA and AH, which
is equal to 1080.15 perches: this distance was
measured due south from the point D, and would
intersect the parallel of 31, at the end of 215 miles
and 169.6 perches from the high water mark on the
Mississippi. From the termination of the
abovementioned 1080.15 perches, another guide, or
compass line was continued East, to the East side of
the Coenecuch."
Thus Ellicott, by triangulation, prolonged the line of
demarcation between the U.S. and Spanish West Florida
across the flooded Mobile-Tensaw Delta into Creek
territory. This mathematical projection of the
boundary line across the swamp might have sufficed had
not Ellicott been limited by his selection of the
"small hill" as the site for triangulation baseline.
Today this hill is named Andry Hill after Seymour
Andry, a Creole who had obtained a Spanish land grant
in the vicinity of Seymour's Bluff (c. 1790.) The
summit of Andry Hill is less than one quarter of a
mile in length. Ellicott's base line along the most
elevated portion of the hill was 1160.87 feet long.
This was the baseline of Ellicott's only triangle that
was fully observed in his triangulation network. The
other two legs of his triangle were roughly 10 miles
in length which created an extremely acute angle on
the other side of the delta at the signal point D. As
anyone versed in the art of triangulation would
attest, this was, indeed, a very weak triangle.
Ellicott's triangulation was perhaps the only way
possible to project the boundary across the
Mobile-Tensaw River Delta due to several factors. The
spring floods had inundated the delta bottomlands with
18 feet of flood water. Topographical limitations
caused Ellicott to select Andry Hill to establish his
baseline. His scheduled meeting with U.S. Indian Agent
Benjamin Hawkins and the Creek chief Mad Dog in
Pensacola, on April 20th, left him scant time to
devise another plan. It can be said, perhaps, that he
did the best he could do under the circumstances.
The Accuracy of Ellicott's Triangulation
A modern analysis of the accuracy of Ellicott's
methodology and calculations, however, reveals some
gross errors introduced by the single, weak triangle
he used to accomplish pushing the line into the Creek
Nation. This, coupled with the inherent inaccuracies
resulting from his astronomical instruments,
observations, and calculations caused some major
deviations from the stated goal of marking the 31st
degree of north latitude on the ground. By using the
known geographical positions of the Ellicott Stone and
Mound No. 216 located in Stockton, Alabama on the east
side of the Mobile-Tensaw River Delta, the accuracy of
Ellicott's triangulation can be assessed. The Ellicott
Stone is located at Point H in his Figure G. Mound 216
is located just to the east of the terminal point
where line D-F (Figure 1) was prolonged "due south" to
intersect Ellicott's 31st parallel. Therefore,
according to Figure 1, Mound 216 should be due east on
the "31st parallel" from the Ellicott Stone.
The NAD (83) geographical coordinates of the Ellicott
Stone are 30º 59' 52.09384 north latitude and 88º 01
21.06684 west longitude. In retrospect, it can be seen
that Ellicott's calculations derived from his
observations at the astronomical station on Seymour's
Bluff (his Point A) led him to erect the Ellicott
Stone (his Point H) approximately 799 feet south of
the actual 31st parallel. The triangulation did not
factor into this calculation. However, the
triangulation was tied to the astronomical station and
the Ellicott Stone only through the traverse along his
Line A-B.
The point of intersection of the prolongation of his
line D-F and the line drawn between the Ellicott Stone
and Mound 216 in Stockton is located at the NAD (83)
geographical coordinates 30º 59' 46.13515 north
latitude and 87º 51 38.36021 west longitude. This
point of intersection is located approximately 1401
feet south of the actual 31st parallel and
approximately 602 feet South of Ellicott's calculated
31st parallel prolong-ed east from the Ellicott Stone.
The Ellicott Stone Selected as the Initial Point
The line of demarcation as monumented by the boundary
commission is consistently south of the actual 31st
parallel and makes a dip to the south (approximately
602 feet) as it crosses the Mobile-Tensaw River Delta.
In 1805, compounding the errors inherent in Ellicott's
triangulation and astronomical determinations, Isaac
Briggs, Surveyor General of Lands South of the State
of Tennessee, instructed his deputy surveyors to
select one of the "mile markers" on the U.S. southern
boundary as an initial point to begin the first U.S.
Public Land surveys in the Land District East of the
Pearl River, Mississippi Territory in the tract where
Indian title had been extinguished by the Choctaw
Treaties of 1803 and 1805. His deputy surveyors
selected the Ellicott Stone as the initial point for
what today is known as the St. Stephens Meridian. The
deputy surveyors were evidently unaware that the stone
monument was not one of Ellicott's mile markers as
they were post mounds numbered east from where the
31st parallel intersects the high water mark on the
east bank of the Mississippi River. Rather, the
Ellicott Stone was set 194 perches east of Mound 206.
The selection of the Ellicott Stone as the initial
point caused numerable problems for the deputy
surveyors who began the township surveys. None of the
post mounds on the line of demarcation could be used
as township or section corners. Later, in the 1820s,
the St. Stephens Baseline was extended to the east and
Township 1 North, Range 1 East and Township 1 North,
Range 2 East were sectionalized through the
Mobile-Tensaw Delta. When the baseline was run through
the swamp and onto the high ground near Stockton, the
deputy surveyors realized that Ellicott's boundary,
the Mound Line, was some 850 feet south of their
baseline.
To remedy this discrepancy between their survey and
that of the U.S.- Spanish boundary commission, the
deputy surveyors shifted Township 1 North, Range 3
East approximately 750 south. This correction on their
part, to make the south boundary of the township
coincide with the Mound Line, created a 750-foot jog
in the St. Stephens Baseline. However, from Stockton
east to the Chattahoochee River, the St. Stephens
Baseline and the Mound Line remained separate lines,
in part due to the initial confusion related to
Ellicott's triangulation and the lack of knowledge
among the U.S. Deputy surveyors concerning Ellicott's
survey of the Spanish boundary.
The failed attempt, on the part of the U.S. deputy
surveyors, to make the St. Stephens Baseline
coterminous with Ellicott's line of demarcation has
bred confusion ever since and actually caused the U.S.
Congress (c. 1850) to call for a dependent resurvey of
that portion of the Mound Line that forms the Alabama-
Florida state line. Ellicott's triangulation, made in
haste, under adverse conditions and the imminent
threat of Indian reprisal, has to be recognized as one
of the chief catalysts for all the confusion and
seemingly unexplainable anomalies found along the old
line of demarcation today which are witnessed by
property boundary disputes, misplaced section lines,
and, yes, even the continuing debate concerning the
obliterated boundary between the States of Alabama and
Florida. However, these stories must wait until
another time.
Ellicott's Perception
But, we can take solace in the fact that Ellicott
perceived that problems related to the work of the
U.S.-Spanish boundary commission might come to light
in the future. With the finesse of a true Federal
bureaucrat he wrote for posterity:
"Measurements when accurately executed, in a known
parallel of latitude, are generally preferable to
observations of distances, not exceeding 100 miles;
yet in this case, the measurement is not entitled to
that weight, being done in haste, with a common chain,
through thickets, swamps and ponds, where pins of more
than ordinary length had to be made use of, which
involved an insurmountable source of error: but not so
considerable a degree as to justify its rejection."
Ellicott waxes further with his apologetic rhetoric in
an effort to mitigate any adverse effects that errors
propagated by the boundary commission might cause for
future surveyors:
"It is presumed, that no apology will be necessary,
for any small inaccuracies which may be discovered in
the astronomical observations, when it is considered
that they were made at temporary stations, and the
apparatus frequently exposed to the weather, for want
of tents, and other covering; and almost as frequently
so injured by the transportation from one place, to
another, through the wilderness, that if I had not
been in the habit of constructing, and making
instruments for my own use, our business must have
been several times suspended, till repairs could have
been made in Europe."
As for the commission's business in the vicinity of
Mobile, it was finished and the instruments were taken
down on April 10th and securely stored onboard the
Sally. The next day, Ellicott ordered his surveyors to
once again cross the flooded delta to begin the third
compass line running east to the Conecuh River through
the Creek Nation. The Sally then descended the storm
swollen Mobile River headed toward Pensacola leaving
behind the Ellicott Stone to stand in silent witness
of Major Ellicott's visit to Mobile while monumenting
his strange triangulation across the swampy river
bottom that served as the boundary between the Choctaw
and the Creek Nations.

Greg Spies is an adjunct professor at Troy State
University in the Geomatics ProgramMath and Physics
Department. He authors a column titled "Retracing the
Bounds" which appears in the ASPLS newsletter and he
has also written for the ACSM Bulletin and Backsights,
the biannual publication from the Surveyors Historical
Society. He is also a Contributing Writer for the
magazine.

--- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:

> As the resident Louisiana resident here, I'll second
> the notion. If we
> can get enough information, I will go over there to
> LAMS and bring us
> back some photos.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@...>
> To: "Robert" <robertoreg2003@...>
> Cc: <boundarypoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 9:51 AM
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: ellicott mound
> prospects in louisiana was
> bp msgs 18443ff
>
>
> > hi robert & thanx
> > glad you are onto us & our quest
> > & to learn of these potential resources
> > which quite a few of us would love to see if you
> > should find them
> >
> > enjoyed your blogs too
> >
> > best wishes
> > mdonner
> > for me & jc &al
> >
> > --- Robert <robertoreg2003@...> wrote:
> >
> >> -Louisiana State Lands has a report on the
> >> Ellicott's mile markers
> >> between the Mississippi River and the Pearl. I've
> >> got it somewhere
> >> but in '99 they did a presentation in Mobile as
> the
> >> U.S. Southern
> >> Boundary Symposium.
>
>

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