& in daylight this keeps looking funnier
for what i didnt realize last night is that the only 2
available border segments that we can use for
implementing your proposal
however distantly & questionably demarcated they may
be
namely the egly & lysd convergents
dont intersect as would be necessary
but are in parallel or unison
obviously
since each of them is defined as someones idea of the
25th meridian
& thats possibly the same idea
or datum
which would thus produce a single geodesic meridian
line remaining to be divided into its 2 respective
segments at somesones idea of the egsd convergent &
22nd parallel
rather than 2 very near parallel line segments
but it is perhaps just as possibly not the same idea
or datum
so since we dont yet know if these egly & lysd
segments with spotty demarcations at least 68 years
old & up to 297 miles away have even been datumized
yet
we also dont yet know if they would produce on the one
hand a single continuous line that simply needs to be
segmented at the right point
or on the other hand two very near parallel lines in
need of a very short tripointing stitch
wherever true egsd actually does or hypothetically
would intersect them
&
the luke warm paper trail that would have to be picked
up & followed to answer these questions leads
in the case of egly
thru perhaps any of the 5 docs listed at the end of
ibs 61 & or the 1938 proces verbal not appended there
& in the case of lysd
possibly but not necessarily a 1934 italo british
egyptian agreement
since even the ibs seems at a loss to source the 12
funky lysd rocks we would need to use for the
datumization
so at this point
i would have to call this proposed methodology a very
hard pull toward a very likely mirage
but a great idea nonetheless
with great potential usefulness universally
if we should ever find another case like this
& another glimmer on the horizon
since the ibs says
a small boundary beacon is reported to mark tdlysd
which brownlie calls a heap of stones btw
http://home.worldonline.dk/jesniel/border/african_tripoints.htm#tdlysd
it is too soon to rule out an undatumized yet still
somehow marked eglysd
however humble & nontrilateral & thus only quasi or
semi official it may be
--- aletheiak <
aletheiak@...> wrote:
> & a very sweet dream indeed as well as a brilliant
> analysis & synthesis dear doctor
> but off the top of my head
> egsd even in the wadi halfa nile salient was last
> reported totally undemarcated as of 1962
> per ibs
> so your valiantly won trilaterality & tridatum
> intersection appears to evaporate in the
> desert
>
> but hardy & steady as she blows matey for we are
> whaling in mirage country here
>
> & something seems to be turning up
>
> yes
> per the other ibs
> egly has its mediterranean border base at a place
> called beacon point
> no relation
> & was reportedly marked by beacons 206 miles inland
> from there
>
> & this strange note with perhaps a new clue
>
> on 15dec1937 a commission met & arranged to move
> some of the boundary pillars
> westward in order to improve intervisibility & to
> delimit the boundary as a series of
> straight lines between beacons instead of the
> previous line which followed the tracks
> between the beacons
> & 9 extra beacons were erected at this time bringing
> the total to 187
> & this whole chain of permanent beacons was reported
> satisfactorily completed in a proces
> verbale dated 3may1938
> which
> could well tell us or lead us to the egly datum
> if we ever did find an egsd datum
> for completing the still elusive intersection &
> triangulation you propose
>
> also & stranger
> a whole fresh chain of border arcs mike kaufman & i
> missed in our crazy arc census is
> built into egly tho not quite nakedly visible in
> here
>
http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/maps/bs61.html
> but thats just for titillation & profits us nothing
>
>
> &
> aha
> but here in the lysd ibs your point & synthesis are
> finally made in earnest
> still hypothetically of course but its a warm lead
> for it indicates
> 23 or 24 miles south of eglysd
> lysd appears to be demarcated by 12 boundary beacons
>
> however no info available on their type or condition
>
> funny way to put it & unusual circumstance too
> but it points toward a lost treaty text & in it
> perhaps a lost lysd datum
> which
> when combined with our more hopefully found egly
> datum
> completes your proposed trilateral datum cross
> artifice by the back door
>
> of course we still have to track down the one
> ordinary egly & this other mystery lysd treaty
> but its a way to proceed
> superchallenging as it may seem
>
> but something better to pursue in daylight i would
> think
>
> so keep on dreamin
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G.
> McManus" <lgm@w...> wrote:
> >
> > While the EGLYSD tripoint has almost certainly
> never been surveyed according to
> > any datum whatsoever, it seems likely that other
> segments of the EGLY meridional
> > boundary (farther north) and of EGSD (in the
> vicinity of the Nile Valley) have
> > been surveyed and demarcated. Shouldn't the same
> datum that was used in those
> > surveys be applied along the whole length of the
> respective meridian and
> > parallel, since it has already been accepted by
> the parties?
> >
> > I am reminded that it was the ancient Egyptians
> who invented surveying to
> > reestablish cadastral boundaries when the annual
> Nile floods erased landmarks.
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@y...>
> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:51 PM
> > Subject: RE: [BoundaryPoint] Re: EGLYSD class b
> >
> >
> > > nice stuff thanx
> > > & please look for quite a few inserts ahead
> > >
> > > --- Hugh Wallis <hugh@o...> wrote:
> > >
> > >> >>thus as likely wgs84 as any<<
> > >>
> > >> definitely won't be WGS84 since that was not in
> use
> > >> until 1984 (hence the
> > >> "84" in its name).
> > >
> > > hahaha you certainly may disallow me & i knew
> dat
> > > about 84
> > > but i dont infer wgs84 should be ruled out for
> that
> > > reason
> > >
> > > on the contrary i think the relative newness &
> > > universality of wgs84 may especially recommend &
> > > automatically promote it in this special case
> > >
> > > for diametrically unlike the maritime borders of
> > > indonesia
> > > where technical & legal complications create a
> > > particular urgency to get all these datums
> clarified
> > > the situation at eglysd smacks of complete
> > > indifference & utter neglect over many decades
> > >
> > > & so i reason in the apparent absence of any
> evidence
> > > of a specified datum for this point since its
> creation
> > > in 1925 til the present
> > > that it either remains unspecified until today &
> thus
> > > highly subject to the wgs84 default principle
> > > or else that any specificity it may have
> acquired
> > > would most likely have occurred post 1984 &
> would thus
> > > very likely be in the form of wgs84 for that
> reason as
> > > well
> > >
> > > also where so many as 3 parties are involved
> universal
> > > norms tend to be preferred to local ones
> > >
> > > your indonesia text says flat out
> > > for its own special case but with universal
> > > applicability in this case
> > > wgs84 seems to be most sensible to adopt
> > > &
> > > all decisions should be legally agreed by all
> > > countries involved
> > >
> > >> I suspect that the Egypt 1907 Datum might have
> been
> > >> used
> > >
> > > but what in particular leads you to guess egypt
> 1907
> > >
> > > i can imagine egypt & sudan adopting it but not
> so
> > > readily libya
> > >
> > >> - but see
> > >>
> > >
>
<
http://www.fig.net/pub/cairo/papers/ts_45/ts45_01_abidin_etal.pdf>
> > >>
> > >
>
http://www.fig.net/pub/cairo/papers/ts_45/ts45_01_abidin_etal.pdf
> > >> where it
> > >> notes, using Indonesian maritime boundaries as
> its
> > >> focus, that often the
> > >> datum is NOT specifically denoted in a relevant
> > >> treaty
> > >
> > > exactly my point as well as my guess here at
> eglysd
> > > since day 1 in 1925 & even up to the present
>
=== message truncated ===
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