Subject: stunning legal doc both clarifies & confuses both njnypa & nyonqc<br/>
Date: Dec 30, 2005 @ 05:09<br/>
Author: aletheia kallos (aletheia kallos &lt;aletheiak@...&gt;)<br/>
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<div id="ygrps-yiv-1211107567">this statutory description of ny state boundaries from<br/>
the ny state consolidated laws<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c111/a4.html">http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c111/a4.html</a><br/>
naturally enough has something to say about both<br/>
nyonqc & njnypa<br/>
but oddly enough too<br/>
it aint necessarily pretty<br/>
<br/>
first <br/>
regarding nyonqc<br/>
under section 5 entitled canada boundary line<br/>
the text does confirm that the 1817 ellicott rock is<br/>
on the bank of the st lawrence at st regis <br/>
but then confounds everything we thought we knew <br/>
based on both<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://topozone.com/map.asp?lat=44.99722&lon=-74.65139">http://topozone.com/map.asp?lat=44.99722&lon=-74.65139</a><br/>
&<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.internationalboundarycommission.org/coordinates/J45thp.txt">http://www.internationalboundarycommission.org/coordinates/J45thp.txt</a><br/>
by assigning this rock the number 774<br/>
rather than the expected designation of either 775 or<br/>
origin<br/>
<br/>
& this evidently introduces an utterly messy<br/>
difference of about 120 feet in the position of the<br/>
turning point <br/>
per both of the above<br/>
<br/>
but if we can manage to shrug & write that off to<br/>
secretarial error & somehow get past it<br/>
the text then confirms our belief that caus turns nw &<br/>
not sw into the saint lawrence from there<br/>
or in other words <br/>
at right angles to the shoreline<br/>
again as indicated on the above usgs topo <br/>
rather than the canadian topo or these demonstrably<br/>
pied ibs coords it was evidently based upon<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.internationalboundarycommission.org/coordinates/KStLaw.txt">http://www.internationalboundarycommission.org/coordinates/KStLaw.txt</a><br/>
<br/>
of course the text doesnt mention nyonqc by name<br/>
because it is concerned only with <br/>
cany<br/>
or what it calls indiscriminately <br/>
the ny boundary with canada<br/>
<br/>
but if only we could trust it to be right about the<br/>
turn even if wrong about the number of the ellicott<br/>
rock turnpoint<br/>
we would pretty much have nyoncq nailed <br/>
as previously estimated<br/>
just where this first st lawrence segment of caus aka<br/>
cany crosses the center of the seaway cut<br/>
<br/>
& i think we can if just barely trust it to be first<br/>
wrong & then right<br/>
for the time being anyway<br/>
& i think we thus really do even if still<br/>
provisionally have nyonqc rather well nailed<br/>
notwithstanding the new confusion that is also<br/>
introduced by this text<br/>
since of course we are still expecting to get a<br/>
further confirmation of it all from the ibc<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
& then<br/>
regarding njnypa<br/>
under section 6 entitled pennsylvania boundary line<br/>
besides confirming that nypa is <br/>
however improbably<br/>
both delineated down the center of the delaware as<br/>
well as a concurrent jurisdiction thruout the main<br/>
channel at low water line<br/>
the text perfectly confounds our understanding of<br/>
njnypa <br/>
<br/>
for first it defines the nypa turnpoint as the<br/>
junction of the delaware with the neversink<br/>
but then it specifies a vector of s51e from that<br/>
turnpoint to the tri states monument<br/>
or in other words<br/>
a perfect prolongation of the n29w njny vector <br/>
by which nypa does finally almost reach the neversink<br/>
in more or less the alignment shown here running<br/>
straight thru the tripoint<br/>
but for the fact that the peninsula is shown too short<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4578463&e=525507&s=25&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25">http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4578463&e=525507&s=25&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25</a><br/>
rather than <br/>
as carved in granite on the 1882 witness rock <br/>
or as shown here<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4578366&e=525482&s=50&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG100">http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4578366&e=525482&s=50&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG100</a><br/>
<br/>
& then it goes on to say<br/>
farther down in the same section<br/>
that this was settled by congressional approval in<br/>
1890<br/>
<br/>
so 1890 paper trumps 1882 rock evidently in this case<br/>
<br/>
still farther down in the same section the text<br/>
returns to the wording<br/>
a westerly prolongation of njny from a granite<br/>
monument marking njnyw<br/>
but clearly it would be wrong to interpret this as due<br/>
west<br/>
as i was so easily gulled by the witness rock into<br/>
believing yesterday<br/>
<br/>
but then that means <br/>
not only is the 209 degree ny pie slice shown on the<br/>
100k scale topo wrong<br/>
but the 170 degree ny pie slice diagrammed on the tri<br/>
states monument is likewise wrong<br/>
for the true ny slice can only be 180 degrees<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
phew<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
now of course that doesnt give us a clue yet about the<br/>
angles of the true nj & pa slices <br/>
& or the njpa condo slice if any<br/>
but it does incite a new hypothesis for them all<br/>
which is <br/>
that there is either a njpa delineation agreement<br/>
still to be found lurking somewhere<br/>
or else<br/>
more likely i think<br/>
that nypa is a fully de jure model for what njpa is<br/>
only partly de jure & partly de facto<br/>
<br/>
that is to say<br/>
a legally established concurrent jurisdiction all<br/>
right since the 1780s<br/>
but with a technical delineation down the middle of it<br/>
that is merely widely presumed for njpa <br/>
yet never actually legally established in the way it<br/>
was legally established for nypa in 1890<br/>
<br/>
aha <br/>
<br/>
& phew again<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
& what that would say about the trifinial diagram on<br/>
the njnypa monument is this<br/>
<br/>
the njpa line shown on it is completely bogus both<br/>
because there is no known de jure njpa line as well as<br/>
because even if there were one then how the freak<br/>
would it get from the middle of the river where it<br/>
belongs to the left bank here where it clearly doesnt<br/>
belong<br/>
<br/>
no i think it is looking pretty likely now that what<br/>
has come to the left bank here is only the concurrent<br/>
njpa jurisdiction <br/>
but not at all any official njpa state line<br/>
delineation<br/>
<br/>
& this alone may well explain the funky stylized look<br/>
that the diagram has<br/>
<br/>
as if whoever made it had to ultimately just throw up<br/>
their hands<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
so i think we may have discovered quite an anomaly<br/>
here<br/>
<br/>
namely a delineation that is widely believed in &<br/>
depicted but that doesnt really exist<br/>
<br/>
except as the entire main channel of the river<br/>
everywhere between njnypa & denjpa<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
& i should probably take this opportunity to revise my<br/>
previous guess about the shape of the condo <br/>
accordingly<br/>
to exclude all the back channels from it<br/>
& thus to remove from it the 89 or more holes i<br/>
thought the allocated islands produced as well<br/>
thus leaving the condo territory as a continuous<br/>
ribbon of water <br/>
with perhaps a few new unallocated dry spots within it<br/>
like<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4569765&e=513718&s=25&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25">http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4569765&e=513718&s=25&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25</a><br/>
<br/>
& this ribbon would of course have a highly variable<br/>
width too<br/>
since it is sometimes as narrow as this<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4480529.00011814&e=494442&datum=nad83">http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4480529.00011814&e=494442&datum=nad83</a><br/>
but there would be no breaks or holes in it anywhere<br/>
of nonconcurrent jurisdiction<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
except <br/>
possibly <br/>
here at scudders falls<br/>
the anomaly within the anomaly<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4457424&e=512604&s=50&size=l&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25">http://topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4457424&e=512604&s=50&size=l&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25</a><br/>
where the entire hypothesis could be busted if a real<br/>
& dry njpa state line is found as shown<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
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		<br/>
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