this admittedly imperfect njnypa map depiction
dating from perhaps as early as 1884 & possibly revised as late as 1906
http://docs.unh.edu/NY/prtj08sw.jpg
still refers to the tristate rock
rather than the tri states monument
as of yet
of course thats not really a surprise
nor much of a help
since there is also no hint on it of the 1882 or earlier nypa due west stitch
which we already know went unrealized by the usgs for another century
nor any hint on it either of the then century old 1783 njpa concurrent jurisdiction condo
which had thus presumably already been forgotten too
or else quietly divvied up by then
so still not much to hang ones hat on in any case
but it does suggest or even document the already huge neglect & or misunderstanding of
these state lines
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, aletheia kallos <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
>
> the 2 rocks look & act & probably are at least roughly
> contemporary
> but dont rule out the possibility that the tri states
> monument
> properly so called & labelled as such
> is actually a later capstone upon the natural tri
> state rock
> also properly so called
> which dates from circa 1773 per bus&ss
> & is referred to specifically & only as a rock rather
> than a monument on the 1882 witness rock
>
> indeed at this point my guess is that the tri states
> monument is actually slightly later than the witness
> rock
> as well as either deliberately stylized for some
> reason or else laughably ignorant of the true form of
> the trifinial convergency
>
> & the disk does appear to be a further afterthought
> but i am pretty sure from recollection that it doesnt
> have its own trifinial
> die agram
>
> both njny & nypa were completely renovated between
> 1876 & 1886
> per bus&ss & the pdf file that is probably already
> truncated below
> which reiterates the explanation or definition in
> slightly different terms
> but the wording on the witness rock really doesnt
> strike me as being unusually laborious for a witness
> rock
>
> all good thinking & questions tho
> for we still dont have anything remotely satisfactory
> to explain the already several presumed or known
> errors on this funky little tri states monument
>
> & it is a rather unusual monument in many ways
>
>
> btw i phoned trenton today & they are sending some
> njpa maps & other data
> so we can look forward to more detail here shortly
> but so far nobody could tell me anything about the
> actual delineation
>
> --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@w...> wrote:
>
> > Do we know the year that the Tri State Rock was
> > installed? Assuming that it and
> > the witness monument are not contemporary, the
> > laborious explanation on the
> > latter was probably devised to correct the known
> > waywardness of the former's
> > grooves. The USGS bronze disc in the top of the
> > former was probably an even
> > later addition. It would be interesting to know the
> > angles of any die-stamped
> > lines that radiate from its central dimple.
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@y...>
> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] yikes could njpa be a
> > condo & thus njnypa & denjpa
> > trilines rather than tripoints
> >
> >
> > > thanx pal
> > > tho i keep jack parsells book here with me in the
> > > flesh at all times
> > >
> > > & of course it is a big help as usual
> > >
> > > in this case it says
> > > the big monument says
> > > on the nj side
> > > south 64 degrees west
> > > 72 & a quarter feet from this
> > > is the tri state rock
> > > which is the northwest end of the ny & nj boundary
> > &
> > > the north end of the nj & pa boundary
> > > &
> > > on the ny side
> > > the corner between ny & pa is in the center of the
> > > delaware river
> > > 475 feet due west of the tri state rock
> > >
> > >
> > > & it is this text that gives the lie to & indeed
> > > trumps the trifinial diagram that is shown on the
> > tri
> > > state rock that it witnesses & points toward
> > >
> > > for in that diagram
> > > which is also nicely shown in the book
> > > the nypa line does not turn due west from the njny
> > > terminal point
> > > to give ny its proper 209 degree pie slice as
> > > correctly shown only on the 100k scale topo
> > > but it is actually shown pivoting slightly in the
> > > wrong direction
> > > & thus erroneously indicating only about 170
> > degrees
> > > of the pie for ny
> > >
> > > & i am pretty sure its depiction of the njpa line
> > is
> > > likewise mistaken
> > > whether njpa proves to be a legal condo or not
> > > & that only its depiction of the njny line is
> > > technically accurate
> > >
> > >
> > > in the meantime too i have done some more checking
> > > & have learned that the njpa line is widely
> > presumed
> > > to run down the middle of the delaware
> > > but that the river is in fact at least a joint
> > njpa
> > > police jurisdiction from bank to bank
> > > all the way from new york to delaware
> > > whether it proves to be a true territorial condo
> > or
> > > not
> > >
> > > & if it does prove to be a territorial condo from
> > bank
> > > to bank
> > > as the 1783 agreement seems to say & as i believe
> > has
> > > never been changed but only forgotten
> > > perhaps
> > > then the tri state rock marks the nw corner of
> > this
> > > condo & the west end of the njnypa triline
> > > aka nj&ny&njpa
> > > &
> > > your mentioned point in the middle of the river
> > 475
> > > feet due west of the tri state rock marks the east
> > end
> > > of the njnypa triline
> > > aka ny&pa&njpa
> > > while the northeast corner of the condo is farther
> > due
> > > west on the pennsylvania bank
> > >
> > >
> > > & the correspondingly presumptive denjpa triline
> > btw
> > > down at the other end of the condo
> > > unlike the njnypa triline that runs only halfway
> > > across the river to the mentioned nypa corner
> > > would appear to run from shore to shore at low
> > tide
> > > because the delaware arc does
> > >
> > >
> > > another interesting detail in this connection
> > > or rather the lack of a detail
> > > is that i cant find now nor can i recall ever
> > having
> > > seen a njpa state line sign in the middle of any
> > > delaware river bridge
> > > but only welcome signs at the respective ends of
> > those
> > > bridges
> > >
> > > not that finding one would necessarily prove
> > anything
> > > but not finding any is rather suspicious
> > >
> > > or i should say auspicious
> > > for a condo
> > >
> > >
> > > & finally
> > > we have always found it very peculiar at njnypa to
> > > find pa on the left bank at all
> > > havent we
> > >
> > > & in the absence of any legal text placing it
> > there
> > > so far
> > > the only possible reason i can think of for anyone
> > to
> > > have ever marked it there is
> > > to acknowledge not that pa proper has crossed the
> > > river
> > > but rather only that a njpa condominial territory
> > > extends all the way across
> > >
> > >
> > > so at this point
> > > i must say
> > > i am fairly itching to run down there to port
> > jervis
> > > again
> > > if just to correct the trifinial diagram on the
> > rock
> > > with my magic marker
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Jack Parsell <jparsell@t...> wrote:
> > >
> > >> With reference to the the July 6, 2005 message,
> > you
> > >> can refresh your memory
> > >> by going to Brian Butler's site,
> > >> www.bjbsoftware.com/corners and clicking on
> > >> the NJ-NY-PA location on the map. From that page
> > >> click on "Jack Parsell's book"
> > >> and you will find a paragraph giving the wording
> > of
> > >> the inscriptions on the big
> > >> monument.
> > >>
> > >> Jack
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: aletheia kallos
> > >> To: boundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:01 AM
> > >> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] yikes could njpa be a
> > >> condo & thus njnypa & denjpa trilines rather than
> > >> tripoints
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> you may recall spooky mikes recent revisit to
> > >> njnypa &
> > >> his illustrated question about it
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/18068
> > >> which precipitated this also illustrated
> > >> advancement
> > >> in the state of play there
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.discuss.boundary-point/7397
> > >> but left us with these messy questions
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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