& the 2 reasons that we have
to believe afcntj may actually be monumented
are
first the topo itself here
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:8085/tajikistan/100k/10-43-102.jpg
which indicates marked points of some sort at both the povalo summit & the tripoint
resembling various other peak & border points in their symbolization & in having their
altitude specs in decimeters
& secondly the comment in the summary on page 12 in the ibs here
http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS026.pdf
that the former afsu & now aftj has been demarcated along its entire length
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
>
> thank you doctor
> we have reason to believe it may actually be monumented tho
> if you noticed
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub" <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle prevails here. To locate a tripoint in a
> > "non-demarcated" situation, together with rather unspecific treaties, and
> > markers that are memorials rather than monuments (in the American sense of
> > the word)is a sheer impossibility. Using "the best available maps" means
> > therefore operating with undue precision. Hence, every arguing is a waste of
> > time.
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von aletheiak
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Oktober 2005 16:53
> > An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] Re: but yikes afcntj looks to be off peak now
> > too
> >
> >
> > hahahaaah
> > but we use the best available maps all the time my dear
> > mumble bumblish
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> > <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The "relevance" was relating to your unusual seriousness with which you
> > > referred to Soviet maps. As I skip 99% of your stories, you are well
> > invited
> > > to skip all of mine!
> > > Looking forward to more grumbling gibberish,
> > >
> > > Wolfgang
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von aletheiak
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Oktober 2005 14:04
> > > An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] Re: but yikes afcntj looks to be off peak now
> > > too
> > >
> > >
> > > thanx for your kind wishes wolfgang
> > > tho i have to note the rest of your response is oranges to my apples
> > > as i was asking about the fully accepted common tripoint of 3 independent
> > > countries
> > > only one of which is even a postsoviet republic
> > > & you are answering here about internal soviet & postsoviet borders &
> > > disorders
> > > while singing admittedly wretched old tunes well worth skipping again in
> > > their own right
> > > even if they hadnt been irrelevant to my question & our common topic
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> > > <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "What is the truth here"? You allude to a common feature of Soviet - and
> > > > also "modern" Russian management of bordes/boundaries: Nobody knows for
> > > > sure. In addition: Borders are shifted per ???? - Ukáz - decree, in
> > > > Stalinistic times sometimes in the form of a telegram without previous
> > > > announcements/consultation; you can imagine how "accurate" these were.
> > > >
> > > > A nice example is offered by the ongoing quarrel between Ingushetiya and
> > > > North-Ossetia over the Progorodnyj district, where borders have
> > repeatedly
> > > > been shifted back and forth so often that the local people decided to
> > > ignore
> > > > all this and start fighting against each other. You may also refer to
> > > > http://www.ingush.ru/d.asp where all this misery is displayed in
> > splendor.
> > > >
> > > > Right now discussions are going on in the Duma to reduce the number of
> > > > Russian "subjects" by combining some of them to greater units, in order
> > to
> > > > minimize administration costs. You may wonder if this does not mean
> > > breaking
> > > > up wounds of old ethnic disputes, rather than helping to solve a
> > problem.
> > > >
> > > > Typical is also the kind of treatment that the Russians give to the
> > > Georgian
> > > > border. Repeatedly in the recent past the Russians have shifted the
> > border
> > > > stepwise to the South, in increments of 100 metres or so, i.e. in
> > > increments
> > > > small enough not to arouse international clashes, but effective enough
> > on
> > > > the other hand since the Georgian side is unable to offer resistance.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck in analyzing ols Soviet maps!
> > > >
> > > > Wolfgang
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > Von: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von aletheia kallos
> > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Oktober 2005 23:42
> > > > An: boundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] but yikes afcntj looks to be off peak now too
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > this soviet topo shows the former afcnsu
> > > > which is now afcntj
> > > > 20 meters lower than & several hundred meters away
> > > > from the peak of mt povalo shveikovski
> > > > http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:8085/tajikistan/100k/10-43-102.jpg
> > > >
> > > > but all 3 treaties specify the summit itself & far
> > > > different elevations
> > > > http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS089.pdf
> > > > page 4
> > > > http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS026.pdf
> > > > pages 12 & 16
> > > > including an apparent mention of a marker
> > > > &
> > > > http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS064.pdf
> > > > page 16
> > > >
> > > > the variety in the elevations of up to 175 meters is
> > > > not so disturbing as the apparently even greater
> > > > displacement from the known summit point
> > > >
> > > > but what is the truth here
> > > > & why all this discrepancy
> > > >
> > > > & how far can we trust these soviet maps anyway
> > > > oops
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
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