there is reportedly a 1997 eelvru tripoint agreement
http://www.boundaries.com/ibm_idx.htm
& the apparently authoritative location of this tripoint in 2003
is seemingly divulged with near precision here
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/10361
presumably pursuant to that agreement
which however was said to remain unratified at the time
later in 2003
at the time of the only known visit
the location was apparently still considered secret
but was reportedly known to & revealed by latvian soldiers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/14497
presumably in conformity with the above estonian description
tho i dont believe this detail was ever clarified
& photos were reportedly forbidden
so we were only able to guess & imagine at that time
just as we still are now
but in view of the apparent intention of article 6 here below now
& also in view of the reported nonnavigability of the pedetsi in the triarea
i would like to modify very slightly the guess i made in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/11071
from the thalweg to the median line
where i now think jan & jesper & others already had it correctly pegged
for example in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/11105
& of course
even if we do have all this perfectly correct now
it still refers only to a future probability of eelvru
since technically
until everything is ratified
i suppose the existing eelvru is still down there at the next stream confluence
2 meters below marker 47
which i believe was also visited without possibility of photography at the time
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> whats this mention in article 4 about a separate eelvru treaty
>
> it is surprising because theres no lvru treaty yet
> & wasnt any eeru treaty til this week
>
> but can the text of this tripoint treaty also be found
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Brendan Whyte <bwhyte@u...> wrote:
> > This month's Estonian-Russian boundary treaty is available (except the
> > boundary description and map!!) at
> > <http://web-static.vm.ee/static/failid/372/Riigipiiri_leping_Venemaaga_rus.pdf>.
> >
> > Thanks to Pepijn for pointing me to the document.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a Babelfish translation from the Russian:
> >
> >
> > AGREEMENT between the Estonian republic and the Russian Federation about
> > the Estonian- Russian state border Estonian republic and Russian
> > Federation, being further named sides, guided by the universally recognized
> > principles and the standards of international law, including documents OF
> > UNITED NATIONS and OBSE, and confirming the tendency to develop
> > intergovermental relations on their basis, desiring to ensure favorable
> > conditions for the development and strengthenings of good neighborly
> > relations and of mutual confidence between two states, attempting to
> > develop lawful basis for regulating of questions, connected with the
> > Estonian- Russian state border, agreed about that be followinging:
> >
> > Article 1
> > 1. in the present agreement of side decide questions of the passage of the
> > state border between the Estonian republic and the Russian Federation in
> > the land section (further - state border) they confirm that with the coming
> > into force of present agreement they consider the questions indicated as
> > those regulated.
> > 2. passage of the line of the differentiation of the sea spaces of side is
> > defined by various agreement.
> >
> > Article 2
> > the state border, defined by present agreement, is line and passing along
> > this line vertical surface, that demarcate land, reservoirs, airspace and
> > depths of Estonian republic and Russian Federation.
> >
> > Article 3
> > 1. of side on the basis of the understandings, achieved in the course of
> > Estonian Russian negotiations on boundary questions, determined the passage
> > of state border, which is given in the description (appendix 1) and it is
> > plotted on the map of scale 1:50 000 (appendix 2). Appendices 1 and 2 to
> > the present agreement are its integral parts.
> > 2. in the case of the differences between the sides with the interpretation
> > of the point of 1 present article decisive importance has a description of
> > the passage of state border according to application 1 to the present
> > agreement.
> >
> > Article 4
> > points of the joint of the state borders of Estonian republic, Russian
> > Federation and Latvian republic is determined by the separate agreement
> > between these three states.
> >
> > Article 5
> > 1. for the establishment in the locality of the passage of the state border
> > of side creates on parity principles the joint demarcation commission
> > (further - commission), and each side assigns the cochairman of commission
> > and his deputy.
> > 2. commission asserts the regulations of its activity.
> > 3. each of the sides beret to itself coating the expenditures of its part
> > of the commission, if the governments of the parties sometimes do not agree
> > about something different.
> >
> > Article 6
> > 1. commission achieves demarcation of state border as follows: it prepares
> > the drafts of documents about the demarcation of state border; determines
> > if necessary on the boundary rivers (lakes) the precise position of main
> > (navigable) fairway, middle of river or its main sleeve, and also the
> > belonging of islands in the boundary rivers and the lakes; boundary signs
> > are established.
> > 2. with performing of demarcation work commission considers on the basis of
> > the mutual agreement of the condition of the domestic-economic activity of
> > population, including of land tenure, the nature of locality, and also the
> > need of creating the favorable conditions for the protection of state border.
> >
> > Article 7
> > state border is considered finally demarcated after assertion the
> > government of each of the sides of the documents of demarcation - the
> > description of the passage of the line of state border, protocols of
> > boundary signs and demarcation map.
> >
> > Article 8
> > questions, which are concerned the activity of boundary representatives,
> > the rules of water-use, navigation, joint operation of those located on the
> > boundary it is bridge and water-engineering constructions, the conditions
> > of fishing, another economic activity in the boundary waters and of
> > different aspects of the regime of state border, they are regulated by
> > separate agreements.
> >
> > Article 9
> > questions, which appear with fulfilling of present agreement, sides decide
> > along the diplomatic channels.
> >
> > Article 10
> > present agreement is subject to ratification and comes into force after 30
> > days from the date of the exchange of ratification instruments. Are
> > perfected into Moscow "18" May of 2005 in two copies, each in Estonian and
> > the Russian language, moreover both texts be identically valid.
> >
> >
> > For The Estonian Republic
> > [signature]
> >
> > For The Russian Federation
> > [signature]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 12:18 AM 21/05/2005 +0200, you wrote:
> >
> > >I found the Russian text through the website of the Estonian embassy in
> > >Moscow (<http://www.estemb.ru>):
> > ><http://web-static.vm.ee/static/failid/372/Riigipiiri_leping_Venemaaga_rus.pdf>.
> > >
> > >
> > >In a quick, cursory scan I have found nothing about the pene-enclave. The
> > >document does not contain, however, the two appendices of the treaty: a
> > >description and a map respectively.
> > >
> > >-Pepijn
> > >
> > >>----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
> > >>Van: Brendan Whyte <bwhyte@U...>
> > >>Aan: INT-BOUNDARIES@J...
> > >>Datum: vrijdag 20 mei 2005 1:59:35
> > >>Onderwerp: Russia-Estonia border treaty
> > >>http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/05/8c4dff69-a0b7-49e9-a3f1-
> fecb60401165.html
> > >>Radio Free Europe reports (on 18 May) that Russia and Estonia have signed
> > >>just a border treaty, that supposedly has been ready since 1996.
> > >>It remains to be ratified by both countries.
> > >>Does anyone have access to the text of this treaty?
> > >>(preferably in an English version, but Russian or Estonian will do).
> > >>I am particularly interested to know the status of a Russian pene-enclave
> > >>on the western shore of Lake Pskov.
> > >>
> > >>Dr Brendan Whyte
> > >>Assistant Map Curator
> > >>ERC Library
> > >>University of Melbourne
> > >>Vic 3010
> > >>AUSTRALIA
> > >>bwhyte@u...
> > >
> > >Dr Brendan Whyte
> > >Assistant Map Curator
> > >ERC Library
> > >University of Melbourne
> > >Vic 3010
> > >AUSTRALIA
> > >bwhyte@u...