good
thanx for the confirmation
but all of the 5 sides of this pentagon are technically arcs
& polygons can be arcuate as well as rectilinear
as well as mixed for that matter
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kaufman
<mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> It looks to me like (on this map) barely both NW and
> SE corners are cut off making it a five sided figure.
> But if this is the case it can't be a polygon since
> the EEZ side would be a curve.
>
> --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
>
> > i should have mentioned
> > this is a cia map circa 2002
> > but hard to find
> > so possibly disavowed later
> >
> > & i dont know whether to prefer the fresher &
> > coarser cia
> > intelligence to the older & finer middlebury data
> >
> > but tho the area on this cia map corresponding to
> > the sexicountry
> > quadrilateral you have identified on the middlebury
> > map is a bit
> > harder to see clearly
> > your polygon appears here either to still be
> > scarcely quadrilateral
> > or else it could perhaps be only triangular now
> > if the malaysia claim doesnt in fact outreach the
> > combined brph
> > claim in the northwest
> >
> >
> >
> > there are 2 other important differences between
> > these maps tho
> >
> > first
> > the cia has not acknowledged the vietnam petroleum
> > block claim
> > that we found so peculiar & offputting in the
> > middlebury map
> > & indeed it is a relief to find it absent
> >
> > & second
> > the cia has added the hypothetical but possibly most
> > significant
> > eez outline at a distance labeled
> > 200nm from coastal states
> >
> > & the resulting tetradecagonal or pentadecagonal
> > concave
> > arcuate hole that is left in the middle of this
> > outline is of course
> > hypothetical everyones land
> > & exciting to encounter here in the middle of the
> > spratlys
> > where the sovereign rights claims of so many as 6
> > countries
> > already overlap anyway
> >
> > exciting because pandominium
> > or lets call it omnidominium to put a softer edge on
> > it
> > is an easier sell wherever multidominium is already
> > envisaged
> >
> >
> > but the main consequence of this new line & concept
> > here for
> > polygon freaks is that
> > because its conventional legality more than trumps
> > the
> > unconventional eez claims of both brunei & the
> > philippines
> > as well as the conventional but differently based
> > territorial sea
> > claims of malaysia
> > it is in fact the only line on the map will full
> > multilateral coherency
> >
> > so our 6country fruit salad polygon must not only
> > include this line
> > but must actually begin with it
> > since what is outside this hole is not everyones
> > land but surely
> > someones land
> > & the polygon thus becomes actually a 7country fruit
> > salad hole
> > or mold including first & foremost everyones land
> >
> > for only the tiniest southeast corner of your
> > polygon
> > if indeed any of it
> > is truncated by the 200nm from coastal states limit
> >
> >
> > the difficulty here again
> > just as at the northwest corner of the cia version
> > of the polygon
> > is in discerning whether there has in fact been any
> > truncation of
> > the middlebury version of the polygon here
> >
> > but evaluating both these difficult northwest &
> > southeast corners
> > as optically equal here
> > since they do at least appear rather balanced if not
> > perfectly
> > symmetrical & isosceles
> > it appears your sexinational quadrilateral
> > has become a septinational polygon
> > tho whether quadrilateral or triangle or pentagon
> > isnt clear
> >
> >
> > in any case i cant stop marveling at how perfectly
> > harmonious &
> > isosceles this completely fortuitous multi right
> > polygon looks in
> > any or all of its geometric permutations
> > when viewed from the base in the northeast facing
> > the vertex in
> > the southwest
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > on this map the putative sexicountry claim area
> > has a different
> > > shape
> > >
> >
> http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/images/schinasea.jpg
> > >
> > > but note here also the differences between the
> > 12nm territorial
> > > sea claim limits & 200nm eez claim limits
> > > both as authorized by unclos
> > > & the unauthorized claim limits beyond 200nm
> > >
> > > so whatever the true shape of the sexicountry
> > claim area
> > > it is not just apples & oranges but full blown
> > fruit salad
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > right
> > > > if it exists
> > > > & whatever it means
> > > > this is a 6country quadrilateral rather than a
> > 6country
> > pentagon
> > > >
> > > > & thus it has only 24 countrysides rather than
> > 30
> > > > oops
> > > >
> > > > but the natures of the overlapping claims
> > > > not to mention its megapoint corners
> > > > are apparently quite various & heterogeneous
> > > > & not well understood
> > > > by me at least
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > Kaufman
> > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Ok, if CN, VN, and TW claim all of the islands
> > and
> > > > > water then that makes sense. So a
> > 5-country-claimed
> > > > > reef. And then we do have that small piece of
> > ocean
> > > > > as a 6-country-claimed region. Of course it
> > is not
> > > > > pentagonal but rather quadrilateral since it
> > only has
> > > > > 4 sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > Michael
> > > > > > Kaufman
> > > > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > The map in the link says nothing about
> > Taiwan and
> > > > > > > Louisa Reef as far as I can see.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > true but taiwan claims all the spratlys
> > > > > > with no known exceptions
> > > > > > just as do china & vietnam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so i have assumed each of their claims
> > includes
> > > > > > louisa reef
> > > > > >
> > > > > > & malaysia & brunei lay explicit claim to
> > louisa
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > but without claiming all the other spratlys
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i dont know what the vietnam petroleum block
> > claim
> > > > > > is or means
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but there is no reason to suppose it limits
> > the
> > > > > > vietnamese claim
> > > > > > to all the spratlys
> > > > > > & there are many reefs & shoals beyond it
> > with
> > > > > > vietnamese
> > > > > > names
> > > > > > apparently including the vietnamese occupied
> > pigeon
> > > > > > reef
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the small pentagonal ocean area you identify
> > below
> > > > > > as claimed
> > > > > > by 5 countries is more likely actually
> > claimed by
> > > > > > all 6
> > > > > > presumably including taiwan
> > > > > > since maritime claims follow from land
> > claims
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neither the map nor list purports to be
> > exhaustive
> > > > > > so not every claim to every spratly is shown
> > &or
> > > > > > mentioned
> > > > > >
> > > > > > & of course not every claim to every spratly
> > is
> > > > > > backed up by actual
> > > > > > occupation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > in fact most of them are deserted
> > > > > >
> > > > > > end inserts
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And it looks like it
> > > > > > > falls outside the Vietnam Petroleum Block
> > Claim.
> > > > > > On
> > > > > > > the basis of the map alone, it looks like
> > China,
> > > > > > > Brunei, and Malaysia claim it. There is
> > one small
> > > > > > > ocean area - China, Brunei, Malaysia,
> > Philippines,
> > > > > > > Vietnam - with no depicted islands or
> > reefs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > tho the philippines do claim several of
> > the
> > > > > > spratly
> > > > > > > > islands
> > > > > > > > & tho all 6 bncnmyphtwvn countries claim
> > at
> > > > > > least 1
> > > > > > > > spratly each
> > > > > > > > the philippines dont claim louisa reef
> > as the
> > > > > > > > bncnmytwvn 5 do
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > moreover
> > > > > > > > since none of the other individual
> > spratlys is
> > > > > > > > claimed by more
> > > > > > > > than 4 of the 6 spratly countries
> > > > > > > > & since no other place in the world is
> > claimed
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > more than 3
> > > > > > > > countries
> > > > > > > > louisa reef stands alone as the hottest
> > real
> > > > > > estate
> > > > > > > > on earth
> > > > > > > > &or under the sea
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > for the basis of my arithmetic
> > > > > > > > please refer again to message 14049
> > > > > > > > & especially to the color coded
> > annotated map in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > link there
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > Michael
> > > > > > > > Kaufman
> > > > > > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Why not 6 country with Philippines?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > yes we have had this report at least
> > since
> > > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > 14049
> > > > > > > > > > when i still imagined she was only a
> > > > > > 4country
> > > > > > > > reef
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > see under louisa in alphabetical
> > list of
> > > > > > > > spratlys in
> > > > > > > > > > the middlebury
> > > > > > > > > > link there
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > only later did it dawn on me that
> > the
> > > > > > bruneian
> > > > > > > > claim
> > > > > > > > > > to her was
> > > > > > > > > > just as real as the 4 others
> > > > > > > > > > despite its being unique in not
> > > > > > acknowledging
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > reef as dry
> > > > > > > > > > land but only as maritime territory
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > but i generally prefer my theories
> > as spare
> > > > > > &
> > > > > > > > lean
> > > > > > > > > > as possible
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > "Lowell G.
> > > > > > > > > > McManus"
> > > > > > > > > > <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Each theory is as good as the
> > other.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Do we know for fact that the
> > lighthouse or
> > > > > > > > > > navigation beacon
> > > > > > > > > > was Malaysian, or
> > > > > > > > > > > is that theory too?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > > > > > > > > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...>
> > > > > > > > > > > To:
> > <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004
> > 1:47 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re:
> > Possible
> > > > > > > > BNCNMYTWVN
> > > > > > > > > > 5-Country Reef and Obelisk
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > well no need to postulate a
> > greater
> > > > > > mystery
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > order to solve
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > lesser one
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > & i think a single 5country
> > obelisk in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > sea
> > > > > > > > > > is plenty for the
> > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > the so called lighthouse or
> > beacon
> > > > > > > > > > > > whether it was mounted atop the
> > obelisk
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > could easily have just been a
> > small
> > > > > > > > reflector or
> > > > > > > > > > glow type
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > the lawn of my estate here on
> > cream hill
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > littered with solar
> > > > > > > > > > > > powered night lights comprised
> > of 6inch
> > > > > > > > plastic
> > > > > > > > > > cubes that
> > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > stick into the ground
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > & the 2 blocklike forms you have
> > spotted
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > reef could
> > > > > > > > > > easily
> > > > > > > > > > > > have come from the top of the
> > single
> > > > > > known
> > > > > > > > > > obelisk
> > > > > > > > > > > > the height of which does indeed
> > appear
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > reduced
> > > > > > > > > > > > as detailed below
> > > > > > > > > > > > by the necessary 15 or 20
> > percent to
> > > > > > account
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > > give or take a beacon
> > > > > > > > > > > > & were perhaps shot down by the
> > same
> > > > > > chinese
> > > > > > > > > > gunboat
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps shot out the light
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > leaving stone markers to claim
> > > > > > sovereignty
> > > > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > > > islets
> > > > > > > > > > > > &or destroying such markers to
> > deny it
> > > > > > > > > > > > has been a fixture thruout the
> > china
> > > > > > seas
> > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > 1895
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > after malaysia destroyed the
> > chinese
> > > > > > marker
> > > > > > > > here
> > > > > > > > > > > > it seems to me
> > > > > > > > > > > > the least china could have done
> > was
> > > > > > destroy
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > malaysian
> > > > > > > > > > light
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > anyway so little for my theory
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > __________________________________
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> > > > > > >
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