Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] world class border arc census was Re: real bjneng try afoot
Date: Aug 05, 2004 @ 04:17
Author: Michael Kaufman (Michael Kaufman <mikekaufman79@...>)
Prev Post in Topic Next [All Posts]
Prev Post in Time Next
> as mentionedhttp://home.worldonline.dk/jesniel/border/african_tripoints.htm#d
> i couldnt be sure
> & on closer examination i still cant
> because the text occasionally varies its formulaic
> description of
> the arcs from one example to the next
> & evidently incorporates several geometric
> conundrums as well
>
> what i can see is
> there are in all 13 different arcs mentioned
> in a total of 15 different numbered paragraphs
> including your mentioned 10 paragraphs plus 36 49 54
> 58 & 59
>
> which may or may not add to your count of 10 border
> arcs
>
> i agree there could be as few as 10 arcs that the
> bjng border
> actually follows
>
> but in any case
> i dont see why they would even have been mentioned
> if the
> border isnt supposed to follow them
>
> can you perhaps positively dispose of any or all 3
> odd men out
> from the mentioned 13
>
> just to keep track
> we have in sequence the following 13 villages as
> centers
> with radii in km
>
> okuta 8 & a half
> guri 4
> yashikira 8
> grand bete 4
> kenumbe 4
> besi 8
> gauzhi 3 & a half
> lusi 3 & a half
> naganzi 4
> kade 4
> kankali 5
> gusin sura 4
> daku 5
>
>
>
> & about your map
> i dont know what the mapmaker was doing or showing
> there
>
> perhaps a temporary question or situation during
> wwii
>
> i think modern dztn is the dash & dot line
> not the black dash dash line
>
> & of course the other convergents
> lytn & dzly
> are shown by the crosses
>
> & i cant account for any of the other lines
> but assume they are irrelevant to finding the
> tripoint
>
> the only presently outstanding question i am aware
> of in this
> vicinity is probably too small to be shown on this
> map
> namely whether dztn meets the arc at its northeast
> terminal
> or subdivides the arc 2km counterclockwise from
> there
>
> zlytnhttp://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/maps/bs1
>
> so as i understand it
> only 2 possible tripoint positions are on this arc
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> Kaufman
> <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > BJNG - Ok by my count I get 10:
> >
> > Under Alignment section - 26, 33, 35, 42, 44, 47,
> 53,
> > 55, 57, 60
> > Which are the other one or two?
> >
> > Also: On http://www.manntaylor.com/FtSaintM.jpg -
> The
> > solid green arrow almost points right to DZLYTN.
> What
> > boundary is the hollow green arrow pointing to?
> > Currently this must be all in DZ. And the line
> from
> > the south - what is this? It would divide
> territory
> > which is currently all in Libya. How many TPs
> > (including ghost points) can be on this one arc?
> >
> >
> > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > please look for several insertions
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > > Kaufman
> > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > 1. DZLYTN
> http://www.manntaylor.com/FtSaintM.jpg
> > > > (this could be DZLY and LYTN or just DZLY as
> per
> > > msg.
> > > > 13465)
> > >
> > > correct & we still dont know which is true
> > > so you are right to keep counting it or them as
> > > either 1 or 2
> > > borders
> > > but this is apparently only a single sweep of
> arc in
> > > any case
> > >
> > > > 2. DZLY
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > b.phphttp://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/maps/bs2.
> > > > 3. LYNE
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > phphttp://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS091.pdf
> > > > 4.-15. BJNG (12 of these?)
> > >
> > > i still cant be sure
> > > but the following text seems to indicate either
> 11
> > > or 12
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > 16. NENGhttp://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS093.pdf
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > (but not evident)http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/gambia_pol88.jpg
> > >
> > > it is evident in the above text
> > > but i think we just havent yet found a good
> enough
> > > map
> > >
> > > > 17.-??? MXUS (msg. 13937; how many are
> there?)
> > >
> > > unknown
> > > but i believe only 1 has been reported so far
> > > & suspect the 1970 mxus treaty will reveal all
> > > if there are any others
> > >
> > > > SO,
> > > > We can't put a firm number on it. Depends on
> 3
> > > > variables:
> > > > 1. Where DZLYTN falls. If there is a short
> LYTN
> > > we
> > > > have 18 not 17.
> > > > 2. Also, do we know 12 for BJNG? So it would
> be
> > > more
> > > > or less if not exactly 12.
> > > > 3. And how many more arcs for MXUS on the
> > > channelized
> > > > Rio Grande?
> > > > I am not yet counting ITVA since I think here
> we
> > > would
> > > > be talking about features (not figures) which
> can
> > > not
> > > > be perfectly geometrically true arcs.
> > >
> > > true
> > > & other reasons not to count any of the itva
> curves
> > > are
> > > that they are elliptical rather than circular
> > > & that their total number is so highly debatable
> > > amounting to either 1 or 3 or 5 or even more
> > > depending on point of view
> > >
> > > what a mess
> > > & good idea to sidestep it
> > > on any grounds
> > >
> > >
> > > so
> > > we have
> > > by this exact count
> > > at least 16 international border arcs
> > > but still perhaps as many as 18
> > > or more
> > > if more are found
> > >
> > > & they are evidently situated on 6 different
> borders
> > > & 1 tripoint
> > >
> > > thanx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > of course some wag will now come along to remind
> us
> > > that all
> > > small & great circle arc borders
> > > including every single segment between
> intervisible
> > > markers
> > > are technically border arcs too
> > >
> > > so we should add an extra zillion or 2
> > >
> > >
> > > end insertions
> > >
> > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > arif
> > > > > i too believed in this arc report about
> > > easternmost
> > > > > gmsn
> > > > > & may even have been responsible for
> starting
> > > the
> > > > > rumor about it
> > > > > but i have been unable to substantiate it
> > > > >
> > > > > this border is set at a fixed distance from
> the
> > > > > river on both sides
> > > > > presumably from both its banks rather than
> from
> > > its
> > > > > thalweg
> > > > > just like the manh state line is offset from
> the
> > > > > merrimack
> > > > > except doubly so
> > > > > as you probably also realized
> > > > > & can see here
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > >__________________________________
> > > > > however
> > > > > as beguilingly arclike as all this may seem
> > > > > such a regime would not actually presuppose
> any
> > > true
> > > > > arcs at all
> > > > >
> > > > > except
> > > > > i would agree
> > > > > conceivably a single one centered at the
> > > headspring
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > however
> > > > > the source of the gambia river is not in
> gambia
> > > > > but in senegal
> > > > > as you can also see in the above map
> > > > > & therefore the simple offset regime couldnt
> > > project
> > > > > such a
> > > > > simple terminal arc sector
> > > > >
> > > > > only by varying the apparent regime &
> reducing
> > > it to
> > > > > a single
> > > > > offset center point in the middle of the
> river
> > > > > could such a final true arc have been
> produced
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > also the map doesnt show any such terminal
> > > rounding
> > > > > or bulge
> > > > > as one would expect in such a case
> > > > > but quite the contrary
> > > > > something more like a foreshortening or
> > > truncation
> > > > > of the basic regime
> > > > > & indeed it makes the cutoff point look
> quite
> > > > > arbitrary & artificial
> > > > > & somehow distinctly at odds with the basic
> > > offset
> > > > > regime
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > so at this point i think the existence of an
> arc
> > > on
> > > > > gmsn hasnt
> > > > > been & probably wont be demonstrated
> > > > > & was just a wishful thought & misconception
> in
> > > the
> > > > > first place
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > mind you
> > > > > i dont actually know how the gmsn border
> does
> > > > > accomplish this
> > > > > remarkable turnabout at its east end if not
> in
> > > some
> > > > > approximation of an arc or arcs
> > > > >
> > > > > & i can still imagine how it might somehow
> > > involve a
> > > > > true arc or 2
> > > > > based at some known terminal cross section
> of
> > > the
> > > > > river
> > > > >
> > > > > but i dont believe there is any text that
> > > specifies
> > > > > to this effect
> > > > > nor any map that suggests it
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > meanwhile
> > > > > i have scoured the ghost frgb lines of the
> > > period
> > > > > & have discovered nothing new
> > > > > so our world class border arc census is
> again
> > > > > stalled
> > > > > at a top count of about 20 now & perhaps
> forever
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Arif
> Samad
> > >
> > > > > <fHoiberg@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > Not sure, but isn't there some (at least
> one
> > > arc)
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the border of Senegal and Gambia. As far
> as I
> > > > > > thought, the Easternmost point is directly
> > > east of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Center of the arc in that border.
> > > > > > Arif
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free
> > > storage!
> > > > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB
> messages!
> > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
> providers!
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>