Subject: Re: American ghost tripoints
Date: Feb 09, 2004 @ 02:14
Author: acroorca2002 ("acroorca2002" <orc@...>)
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> Much matter deleted below and some comments inserted:good
>
> > > > I don't know when the provisional GBUS treaty of 1783 was ratified and
> > > > effective
> >
> > the provisional gbus was 30 nov 1782
> >
> > & the 1783 gbus of 3 sept was not provisional but definite
>
> Of course. My "1783" above was a typo. I meant "1782."
>
> > however you do raise an interesting quandary
> >
> > my de jure claim assumes further ratification of this definitized 1783
> > treaty to be unnecessary not only because it is confirmatory of the
> > earlier 1782 version but also because the territory of the cession
> > itself is the original territory & original jurisdiction of one of the
> > 2 parties to the treaty itself
> >
> > for it seems to me that without this original territory this party
> > the usa
> > doesnt legally exist to sign anything
>
> I agree.
>
> > now it may be that the treaty was subsequently ratified by the
> > continental congress &or the british crown
>
> The Articles of Confederation being in effect since March 1, 1781, ratification
> was done by its Congress, not the Continental Congress. Each state had one
> vote, and it took nine votes to "enter into any treaties" (or to do virtually
> anything else substantive). The Congress ratified the provisional treaty of
> 1782 on April 15, 1783, at Philadelphia. The Congress ratified the definitive
> treaty of 1783, on January 14, 1784, at Annapolis. The definitive treaty was
> signed by George III on April 9, 1784, at the Court of St. James.
>
> > so should we therefore postdate the legal creation of the territory of
> > the usa from this 3sept1783 date to such a slightly later date as
> > necessary to reflect both of these subsequent ratifications
> > if indeed there were any
> >
> > i dont think so
>
> I don't either.
>
> > or we could simply take the treaty dates at face value
> > since they may have been effective retroactively anyway
> > i dont know
>
> Since de facto peace had long since broken out, I'm perfectly willing to take
> the treaty dates at face value--subject only to any subsequent failure of
> ratification, which did not happen in these cases.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA