--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> Adam,
>
> You wrote:
>
> > In other words, the line started at the confluence of the two
rivers,
> > but the border started where that line crossed the Colorado.
>
> Not exactly. The MXUS boundary 1848-1853 descended the Gila to a
point at "the
> middle of the Rio Gila where it unites with the Colorado" and from
that point
> took a bee-line for the Pacific below San Diego, crossing the
Colorado several
> miles downstream at the current AZCAMX tripoint.
>
> So, the MXUX boundary of 1848 came down the middle of the Gila and
just touched
> the south bank of the Colorado in the mouth of the Gila, not making
tripoint
> there with the boundary of California
why do you say it just touched the south bank
why didnt it reach the middle of the confluence
or the thalweg junction
& thus form a new mexico crossclave rather than a mere peneclave
i have a message about this still lost in the ether
in which i considered the possibility that this left bank area might
have belonged to california
or have fallen back to old mexico til 1853
i am still not sure which of these 3 or 4 probabilities might
actually have obtained
but for starters it would help to know why you rule out a new mexico
border cross at the 1849 midstream confluence or thalweg junction
(as admitted in 1850), which was the
> middle of the Colorado. Thus, the broad bend in the Colorado that
now skirts
> the northern end of Yuma was a pene-enclave of the New Mexico
Territory
> (established 1850), joined to the rest of NM only by half the width
of the
> Colorado at the confluence of the Gila. The southern boundary of
NM was
> described as "Beginning at a point in the Colorado River where the
boundary line
> with the Republic of Mexico crosses the same; thence eastwardly
with the said
> boundary line..." This would have carried it through the northern
end of
> current Yuma on the vestigial cadastral line that we see on modern
maps and then
> up the Gila eastward.
>
> The Gadsden Purchase of 1853 added to the US the land between the
MXUS boundary
> described above and the current MXUS boundary. This erased the
part of MXUS
> that is now the ghost line through Yuma, causing MXUS to go down
the Colorado
> southward from modern AZCAMX to the modern MXUS geodesic segment
that you
> mention below, thus enlarging the New Mexico Territory.
>
> > I wonder how the western end of that line was chosen. It seems
likely
> > that it was just chosen as a location that allowed for the area
> > around San Diego Bay to be in the USA but not much more. Seems odd
> > that they didn't set the border on the Pacific at, say, the mouth
of
> > the Tijuana River, which would be a couple miles north of where
it is.
>
> The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo of 1848 specified "a point on the
coast of the
> Pacific Ocean, distant one marine league due south of the
southernmost point of
> the port of San Deigo, according to the plan of said port made in
the year 1782
> by Don Juan Pantoja, second sailing-master of the Spanish fleet,
and published
> at Madrid in the year 1802, in the atlas to the voyage of the
schooners Sutil
> and Mexicana; of which plan a copy is hereunto added, signed, and
sealed by the
> respective plenipotentiaries." [Shades of Mason and Dixon hunting
the
> southernmost point in Philadelphia!]
>
> > While we're at it, I wonder what the history of the geodetic line
> > that forms the WNW/ESE southern border of Arizona/Gadsden Purchase
> > is. How was it chosen? A map of Baja California shows Mexico Hwy.
2
> > extending for about 15 miles WNW of the azbcso tripoint, roughly
> > along the same alignment as the WNW/ESE line in question. Hmm.
>
> The whole purpose of the Gadsden Purchase was for the US to acquire
a desirable
> railroad route. James Gadsden was, in fact, a railroad executive
who was
> appointed Minister to Mexico for the negotiations. The boundary
that finally
> emerged was rather arbitrary, designed to enclose the needed
railroad route.
> The geodesic segment has its eastern terminus at 31°20" N. Lat. and
111° W.
> Long. It runs "thence in a straight line to a point on the
Colorado River
> twenty English miles below the junction of the Gila and Colorado
Rivers. It has
> no vestige west of the Colorado. Mexico highway 2 roughly
parallels the
> geodesic segment. After crossing the Colorado, it continues in the
same
> direction, straight across the desert, aimed generally at Mexicali.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA