Subject: Re: Oklahoma / Texas Border - River Borders
Date: Nov 06, 2003 @ 16:04
Author: acroorca2002 ("acroorca2002" <orc@...>)
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--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> Yes! The compact sends cartographers back to the drawing boards
with their
> erasers in hand. A well-trained monkey could now find the OKTX
boundary on a
> current aerial photo!

& i hope you will train him to take short cuts
or he might never finish his job

but we have been here before
perhaps before your time

i think the key bp point tho is that the new oktx regime is
fundamentally different from the unchanged artx regime
tho they appear on the outdated topos to be the same regime
in following a series of vegetation lines that have not existed since
the time of the first border freezing avulsions shortly after texas
statehood

there is not even any lurch at the aroktx tripoint on these maps

but since the new oktx pact
there actually is a lurch & an extralegal stitch of oktx
which they evidently never thought of when framing the compact
tho they thought of everything else

the exact dry oktxe point on the vegetation line
& the path by which oktx travels its wet yes wet terminal stitch
to meet the unchanged wet aroktx tripoint within the active river bed
as still correctly depicted at topozone
are not precisely stated in the new compact

& these can only be presumed to be one of several nearly identical
but actually distinct alternative points & paths

in reality there is a little hole in oktx here
& it is especially interesting because it subjoins the tristate point

>
> The compact says that the implementation and future evolution of
the vegetation
> line boundary will never affect the ownership of property or of
tribal
> sovereignty in either state. Each state will recognize land titles
that are
> legal under the laws of the other. Property taxes for each given
year will be
> owed to whichever jurisdiction contains the property or whatever
portion of it
> on January 1.
>
> Interestingly, the compact had the general support of landowners
because it
> brought some sanity to their lives for the first time! Before this
compact, the
> Red River segment of OKTX was the sorriest excuse for a state
boundary in the
> country.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Flynn, Kevin" <flynnk@r...>
> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [BoundaryPoint] Oklahoma / Texas Border - River Borders
>
>
> SO the compact overrides all of the boundary lines we see on dry
land on
> Topozone, including the old meanders. and substitutes a living,
moving
> boundary? Interesting. What happens to property owners caught up in
a shift
> of state when the bulbs and meanders are absorbed into the state by
which
> they are connected on dry land?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lowell G. McManus [mailto:mcmanus71496@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 5:26 PM
> To: Boundary Point
> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Oklahoma / Texas Border - River Borders
>
>
> Here's the latest on the OKTX boundary, of which some are apparently
> unaware:
>
> The boundary was drastically rectified and permanently established
in the
> Red
> River Boundary Compact. With ratification by the two states and
the consent
> of
> the Congress, it became effective on August 31, 2000. Consent to
the
> compact
> was also sought and obtained from the Choctaw and Chickasaw nations
and from
> the
> Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache tribes, although these Indian consents
were not
> necessary.
>
> In the words of the compact, "The permanent political boundary line
between
> the
> states of Oklahoma and Texas along the Red River is the vegetation
line
> along
> the south bank of the Red River except for [through Lake
Tacoma,where the
> pre-reservoir boundary line was to be marked with buoys]... On the
> effective
> date of this compact, the party states agree that the State of
Oklahoma
> possesses sovereignty over all lands north of the boundary line
established
> by
> this compact and that the State of Texas possesses sovereignty over
all
> lands
> south of the boundary line established by this compact."
>
> That instantly eliminated multitudes of all wildly wandering cut-
offs on the
> opposite sides of the river. The compact provides for the instant
movement
> of
> the boundary with all future movements of the vegetation line,
whether by
> accretion, erosion, or even avulsion. Simply put, whenever the
vegetation
> line
> moves by any natural means, the boundary moves with it. The stated
purpose
> of
> the compact is "Placement of the boundary at a location that can be
visually
> identified or located without the necessity of a current
survey..." It also
> states, "The interests of the party states are better served by
establishing
> the
> boundary between the states through use of a readily identifiable
natural
> landmark than through use of an artificial survey line."
>
> You can read the Red River Boundary Compact at
http://tinyurl.com/ttqt .
>
> The ARTX boundary on the Red River, downstream of the OKTX
boundary, remains
> a
> mess. There too, the south bank of the river is the boundary,
based on the
> Adams-de On? Treaty between the USA and Spain. Mike sent us a map
of the
> area
> near New Boston, Texas. Just ten days ago, I crossed the bridge
that
> connects
> Arkansas 41 to Texas 8, north of New Boston. It's a new bridge,
about
> three
> years old. In addition to the usual state welcome signs at the
respective
> ends
> of the bridge, there are two small green signs on the railings that
say only
> "State Line." This notice is given at a point well south of the
south bank
> of
> the meandering river.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "voit1" <voit1@a...>
> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:38 AM
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Oklahoma / Texas Border - River Borders
>
>
> > The Texas border stops at the "southern" edge of the Red River. I
> > have heard conflicting information about the start of the Oklahoma
> > border. I have heard that the OK border start in the center of
the
> > river with the space between the OK and TX borders being some
Coast
> > Guard controled federal something or other... seems odd... any
> > thoughts?
> >
> > Also, and likely a more interesting question...Are there other
> > examples where a border runs at the edge of a river, lake, etc.
and
> > not in the center?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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