The bottom photo on this page shows the paleotrifinium:
http://www.bjbsoftware.com/corners/pointdetail.php3?point=24

BJB
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "m06079" <barbaria_longa@h...>
wrote:

> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Flynn, Kevin" <flynnk@r...>
> wrote:
> > As I recall, you're correct that the Post Mark'd West is *not* to

same as

> > PADEMD. It was a reference point that established the latitude for

the west

> > line. The actual tripoint was a bit west of the post.
> >
> > Unfortunately for those who like neat lines and angles, PAMDDE did

*not*

> > occur at the point where the New Castle Arc met the west line.
>
> & there is more to this story than meets the eye too
>
> the depa arc as it exists today is actually 2 different arcs with 2
> slightly different centers & 2 slightly different radii
>
> their imperceptible point of intersection falls near the middle of what
> appears to be a single sweep of arc running all the way from the
> delaware river down to the mason dixon line
>
> & the transition point of these 2 slightly different arcs
> which has nothing to do with the wedge
> is even marked by a special stone
> which i have also visited
>
> it is all extremely complicated & esoteric
>
> more below
>
>
> Instead, the
> > 800-acre or so Delaware Notch was the result. IIRC, the notch at

one time

> > was claimed by PA after the three counties once controlled by Penn

and his

> > heirs became Delaware instead of the three lower counties of

Pennsylvania.

> > If this claim had stood, the PADEMD tripoint would be due south a

mile or so

> > of where it presently is
>
> actually about 3 & a half miles south of demdpa
> which is a bit disconcerting
> because that is the about same distance east of demdpa i make the
> meridian of the stargazers stone & the post marked west out to be
>
> but it could just be a coincidence rather than any evidence of a
> misunderstanding
>
> the accounts are all very confused tho
>
> hopefully danson will settle everything
>
>
> anyway i have visited this paleo demdpa point too
> which you are referring to
> at the south tip of the wedge
>
> it is within the grounds of a top secret dupont chemical complex
>
> i once got a guided tour from their security people
>
> then when i tried at a later date to revisit this same compound
> i was refused admittance
>
> this was when i was seeking dew
> the westernmost point of delaware
> situated a short distance down the demd arc from paleo demdpa
>
> this was part of a cardinal news tour of delaware tho
> & was only coincidentally riddled with mason dixon stones
>
>
> the demd arc btw is based on a third center & a third radius
>
> & there are 2 distinct denj arcs too
> with still other specs
> making 5 entirely different arcs in all among the 4 states i think
>
> end insertions
>
> , and PA would have a miniscule "tooth" of territory
> > south of the Mason Dixon Line.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: m06079 [mailto:barbaria_longa@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 12:01 PM
> > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] re mason dixon preliminary points
> >
> >
> > please see below for an addition to the following excerpts from
> > message 10452 about how mason & dixon got to their mdpa starting point
> >
> > the ref is to a book by edwin danson entitled drawing the line
> > which btw i still havent seen but am looking for
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "acroorca2002" <orc@o...> wrote:
> > > thanx kevin
> > > sounds like a book many of us will enjoy
> > >
> > > after some searching
> > > i believe i have found the location you mentioned on south street
> > > & will look for a commemorative plaque or something
> > > on the specified north wall
> > > next time i blow thru there
> > >
> > > are there any more data in the book about this most precious
> > > initial point
> >
> > > > > > Once it was established as a line 15 mi (IIRC) south of
> > > Spruce
> > > > > Street in
> > > > > > Philadelphia
> > > > >
> > > > > you probably do recall correctly
> > > > > as it was to be 15 miles south of the southernmost point of
> > > > > philadelphia at that time
> > > > > but how did you arrive at spruce street for it
> > > > > & what part of spruce street if you can say
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > My error, it wasn't Spruce bur rather South Street, then known
> > > as Cedar
> > > > Street (and I used to live in Philly, no lessl shoulda known
> > > better).
> > > > Anyway, prior to Mason and Dixon's arrival in Philly, the joint
> > > commission
> > > > of PA and MD reps had stipulated with input from city officials
> > > that the
> > > > "southernmost point in the city" would be the north wall of a
> > > house on the
> > > > south side of Cedar (now South) Street near the corner of
> > > Second Street. The
> > > > constant latitude would be an E-W line 15 miles south of this
> > > point. Of
> > > > course, because the Delaware River flows SWerly here, Mason
> > > and Dixon had to
> > > > survey a course due west from the southernmost point, far
> > > enough to be west
> > > > of the presumed place where the New Castle Arc would drop
> > > below the West
> > > > Line (the point that should've become PADEMD but did not
> > > because of the
> > > > problem of The Wedge) and then drop 15 miles due south to
> > > mark the latitude
> > > > of the West Line. (This became the "Post Mark'd West," which
> > > was actually
> > > > within the 12-mile New Castle Arc; Mason and Dixon had to
> > > proceed west from
> > > > there tp begin the actual PAMD West Line at the Arc limit.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > (minus the land enclosed by the New Castle arc, of
> > > course),
> > > > > > there was a real concern that the MD-VA line (the right bank
> > > of
> > > > > the Potomac)
> > > > > > might actually swing so far north that it would extend north
> > > of
> > > > > the MD-PA
> > > > > > boundary. Now *that* would have been interesting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So what is the speculation here as to how that situation
> > > might
> > > > > have been
> > > > > > equitably resolved among VA-MD-PA?
> > > > >
> > > > > it might have been equitably resolved the same way kymotn
> > > was
> > > > > resolved
> > > > > which was for the surveyors to just follow the agreed specs
> > > > > whatever happened
> > > > > thus producing in that case the kentucky bend exclave
> > > > > & in our speculation a similarly detached western md exclave
> > > > > as you anticipate below
> > > > >
> > > > > > VA was supposed to have the lands south
> > > > > > of the Potomac; but if the river flowed north of 44 deg
> > > latitude,
> > > > >
> > > > > actually if the river flowed anywhere north of the latitude
> > > agreed in
> > > > > 1760 as you describe it above
> > > > > or in other words mason & dixons 39d43m17s6
> > > > > aka mdn of today
> > > > > for example 39d43m15s521 nad27 at mdne
> > > > > then it would have done as you say here below
> > > > >
> > > > > > it would
> > > > > > have punctured PA and cut off eastern MD from western
> > > MD,
> > > > > creating a large
> > > > > > enclave. How else could this have been resolved?
> > > > >
> > > > > i suppose a particularly generous & whimsical pa mightve
> > > given
> > > > > to md the part of itself that wouldve fallen south of the
> > > potomac
> > > > > & thus produce a sausage chain of 3 mary lands
> > > > > connected only by 2 mdmdpava tristate quadripoints
> > > > >
> > > > However, I wonder whether Virginia would have interceded and
> > > actually
> > > > claimed the land south of the Potomac that under these
> > > circumstances would
> > > > have been north of the Mason Dixon Line and therefore
> > > arguably in PA? Just
> > > > think, if the commissioners had said 17 miles instead of 15
> > > miles south of
> > > > the southernmost point in Philadelphia, we would have had
> > > this very problem.
> >
> > ok so i have returned in the interim to the question of how mason &
> > dixon got to their starting point
> > & tho i cant reconcile various conflicting latitude figures
> > i have determined from some online sources that the mentioned house
> > on the south side of south street near second street belonged to
> > thomas plumstead & joseph huddle at the time
> > & i am hoping this extra detail may be enough to find the house in
> > question
> > or its successor
> > even if it isnt marked today with a historical plaque
> >
> > but that is only preliminary point 1
> >
> > in the meantime
> > i have also zeroed in on the second preliminary point mentioned above
> > situated about 30 or 31 miles due west of the first one
> > on the john harlan farm near the forks of the brandywine
> > a point actually marked by mason & dixon
> > by a monument still known today as the stargazers stone
> >
> > so there are now at least these 2 preliminary targets
> >
> > but in addition i have also found some additional indications that
> > the actual initial point of the mason dixon west line
> > aka the post marked west
> > may not have been the same point as modern mdne or demdpa
> > but may actually lie some distance east of it
> > as i think the above description may also suggest
> >
> > so there may actually be 3 preliminary mason dixon points to find
> >
> > but can anyone offer any further info about any of these 3 points
> > before i go off looking for them all
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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