It's moot.
Anyway, I can't top Brendan's work.
LN
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "acroorca2002" <orc@o...> wrote:
> how so len
> or do you just mean you will call it a day now without bothering to
> fulfill on your latest promise
> or on the latest hope you offered of definitively underwhelming
> the 209 meter border candidate previously identified at baarle
> now that brendan has weighed in on these matters personally
>
> in any event the try continues
> with full whoops & yoicks
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
> <lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> > I guess I just saved an hour.
> > LN
> >
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "acroorca2002"
> <orc@o...> wrote:
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Brendan Whyte
> > > <bwhyte@u...> wrote:
> > > > Ellis Island:
> > > >
> > > > thousandths of a foot? Is this the US going metric without
> > > going metric? I
> > > > don't think I've ever seen ruler with 10ths of an inch (only
> 8ths
> > > and
> > > > 16ths), let alone 1000ths.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have coords for these points Michael? Where did
> they
> > > come from?
> > >
> > > this is the supreme court granting its decree on 17may1999
> > > upon the final report of the special master in the njny case
> > > which it had decided the previous year as 526us589
> > > all very probably influenced by the gis technology that was
> used
> > >
> > > so i dont think you will necessarily find any decimal foot
> rulers
> > > tho i should tell you decimal inch rulers have long been
> > > commonplace in the usa
> > >
> > > anyway in this case
> > > a starting point was given in both metric coords &
> degminsecdec
> > > to wit nad83 nlat 40d41m54s92285 & wlong
> 74d02m23s75137
> > > & note the hundred thousandths of a second here
> > >
> > > then a sequence of 182 loxodromes in degminsec & tenths
> only
> > > or at least i think they are proper loxodromes
> > > with the lengths of each being given in feet & thousandths
> only
> > > thus the first being n42d10m59s1w
> > > for 61 feet & 150 thousandths
> > > & the second being n45d24m54s6w
> > > for 60 feet & 990 thousandths
> > > etc etc etc
> > > til supposedly returning punctiliously to the same starting
> point
> > > as indicated also on the blueprint map accompanying the
> text
> > >
> > > it might be fun to check the math tho
> > > for the composite inaccuracy if any
> > >
> > > more below
> > >
> > > > Baarle:
> > > >
> > > > >happily it appears to be another tossup between 2
> > > candidates
> > > > >both looking in this case like about 220 meters
> > > > >
> > > > >these can be seen in
> > > > >http://ontology.buffalo.edu/smith//baarle/baarlemap.html
> > > > >as the irregular pink polygon at upper left near the name
> > > loveren
> > > > >& the white quadrilateral 2 scrolls down between k12 &
> k13
> > > >
> > > > At one time I posted a map of Baarle labelling the enclaves
> N1
> > > ot N8 and H1
> > > > to H22. The Louvren enclave of Belgium is H7. It is the
> > > smallest in area
> > > > (2469sq metres, or 0.2469ha). The next smallest in area is
> > > H22, the enclave
> > > > formed in 1995 in the far west of the commune of
> > > Baarle-Nassau, from
> > > > one-third of a field (not shown on the map you linked to).
> H22
> > > is 0.2632ha.
> > > > Perimetrically, the order swaps. H7 has a perimeter of
> 214m,
> > > but H22 has a
> > > > smaller perimeter (because it's almost square, not
> irregular) of
> > > 209m.
> > > > These figures are taken direct from the 1995 minute which
> > > delimited the
> > > > enclaves to the nearest cm, and their areas and perimeters
> to
> > > the nearest
> > > > (sq) metre.
> > > >
> > > > The military map of Baarle, on Barry Smith's site that you
> linked
> > > to is a
> > > > standard topo map of Baarle, drawn by the Belgian
> IGM=Institut
> > > Geographique
> > > > Militaire. This has since been renamed the IGN=Inst. Geog.
> > > National. This
> > > > particular IGM map dates from the 1960s I believe, when
> the
> > > exact number
> > > > and boundaries of the enclaves were unknown. It is only
> since
> > > 1995 that we
> > > > have a formal delimitation and can say how many enclaves
> > > there are, how
> > > > large, and what their perimeters are. Because of this, the
> small
> > > enclave SW
> > > > of the word 'mast' between K12 and K13 is fictitious. I
> spoke
> > > with someone
> > > > at Baarle (I forget who: probably a chap at the Cadastre in
> > > Breda), who
> > > > agreed it was an error on the map (just as the current
> Dutch
> > > topo maps of
> > > > Baarle are incorrect too, misplacing H22 for example).
> > > >
> > > > So, the smallest enclave at Baarle has a 209m perimeter,
> and
> > > is H22, the
> > > > new one in the far west.
> > >
> > > wonderful
> > > thank you
> > > so this is the boundary length to beat
> > > at cooch behar
> > > or around bwnazmzw if it is ever settled
> > > or anywhere that it can be beat
> > >
> > > > As for Cooch Behar, there are enclaves there as small as
> > > 0.27acres.
> > >
> > > ok
> > > this smallest cooch behar clave is thus probably the
> smallest
> > > international clave in the whole world too then
> > > or wouldnt you agree
> > >
> > > but more below
> > >
> > > > As
> > > > there are 2.47 acres per ha, this gives it an area of
> 0.1093ha,
> > > or 1093sq
> > > > metres. I have no idea of its true shape, but if square, it
> would
> > > have
> > > > sides of 33m, and a perimeters of 4x33m=132m. It is
> probably
> > > not square,
> > > > but will not be highly irregular either, as the edges of the
> > > enclaves
> > > > mostly follow rice paddy bunds (known locally as 'ails': see
> my
> > > thesis),
> > > > which are generally rectangular in shape.
> > >
> > > if we can confirm completely geodetic bounds for this baby
> > > &or for any of its near sizemates
> > > then i think we probably do have the basis for proceeding
> further
> > > toward either proclaiming it outright
> > > or selecting the most promising single or several candidates
> for
> > > shortest border in the world
> > >
> > > but its or their perimeters would all have to be individually
> > > measured or computed
> > > since area & perimeter can be out of all proportion to each
> other
> > >
> > >
> > > for the time being
> > > i agree we have about an 8 to 5 shot on cooch behar to win
> > > but i believe this still is & will remain a horse race
> > > until all the details are known
> > >
> > > which practically forces me to ask you brendan
> > > do you think you even can nail the necessary final data down
> > > for purposes of definitely answering the question
> > >
> > > or are these details likely to remain as murky &
> imponderable as
> > > the already outstanding question about the suspected
> second
> > > cooch behar border cross
> > >
> > > both are fairly lively & worthy questions in my opinion
> > > if you can think of how any more progress can be made on
> them
> > >
> > > > If the Zim/Zam/Bot/Nam boundary turns out to be a point, it
> will
> > > be the
> > > > shortest in the world, and if the lines don't meet at a point, it
> > will
> > > > still be a strong contender.
> > > >
> > > > but for the moment, despite the lack of precision, Cooch
> Behar
> > > beats Baarle
> > > > for boundary brevity by about 8:5
> > > >
> > > > B