I wish I were replying from Belize, but in actual fact home is
Vancouver, BC. I'm the guy that created the Point Roberts,
WA/Tsawassen BC site. Anyway...
I was in Mexico, Belize and Guatemala last December/January. I hope
to be back by the time this year ends as well.
I've got pictures of the BZ-MX border just south of Chetumal, MX.
With luck, they will appear at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/dougmurray85
THEN select album "Belize Bits."
There is also a small map of the border area.
Another map is at:
http://www.ecologic.org/belize.htm
Unfortunately, I have no information on the tri-point of Mexico-
Belize-Guatemala. I have a friend in Belize City -- I'll see if
there is any info from down there. Is there access from Mexico?
As I am a television producer (and border freak), I think next year's
Euro-boundary journey as mentioned here would be a great video
project!!
Regarding television: the BBC did a short documentary series
called "Frontiers" a few years ago. Does anyone have this in NTSC?
More info on the Canada-US border can be found in a book
called "Walking the Line" by Marian Botsford Fraser. Its available
through chapter.ca .
That's it for now!
Doug
--- In BoundaryPoint@egroups.com, michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
> good lord doug
> this is multi fantastic news
>
> & many welcomes to you in any case
>
> the mention of the aguas turbias terminus at the belize guatemala
mexico
> tri country point especially intrigues me
> as this point is my present best shot at a personal tri country
target
> & the closest such tripoint to the united states
> as well as the focal point of the detail map under glass on my
personal
> smoking table
>
> so i cant help wondering if you are posting from belize
> &or do you have any knowledge of this point
>
> best regards
> m
>
>
>
> > Some interesting events surrounding the Belize/Guatemala
border...
> >The first 3 stories from Belize's "The Reporter" newspaper. The
final one
> >from Channel 5 Belize Television. ***Milestone agreement for
Belize
> >and GuatemalaThe Organization of American State Permanent Council
this
> >week approved aresolution, proposed by delegations from both
Guatemala
> >and Belize forfurther confidence-building measures over the
ongoing
> >territorial dispute.Assad Shoman, Senior Ambassador with
ministerial rank
> >represented Belizeduring a session of the OAS Permanent Council
held on
> >Wednesday, November8, at the OAS headquarters in Washington
> >D.C.Representing Guatemala was its foreign minister Gabriel
(Orellana
> >Rojas.Both men signed an agreement to adopt a comprehensive set
> >ofconfidence-building measures to avoid further incidents between
the
> >twocountries.OAS Secretary General Cesar Gaviria, congratulated
both
> >countries for themilestone agreement their delegation has reached
so far
> >in their quest fora peaceful settlement over the dispute." This
is a very
> >significant step that clears the way for the negotiationson the
substance
> >of the differendum to be addressed in a climate of
mutualconfidence and
> >tranquility for both governments and for the people livingin the
area. It
> >faithfully reflects the commitment of both parties to theprocess
and
> >their will for peace," Secretary General Gaviria said.Based on the
> >proposal, the OAS went ahead and approved a resolution
thatsupports the
> >process of negotiation. It has also established a special fundto
support
> >the negotiation by financing the costs of the work of the panelof
> >facilitators in the dialogue." The decision of the Permanent
Council
> >underlines the commitment of theOAS to continue promoting and
supporting
> >the peaceful resolution ofdisputes between member states," Gaviria
> >said.***BDF in morale crisisCommandant designate dismisses
internal
> >gripesGuatemala's continuous unfounded claim to Belizean soil
along with
> >reportsof serious tension among its ranks, is causing great
concern for
> >the menand women in the Belize Defence Force."We are suffering in
> >silence. There is a serious situation that we have todeal with
from the
> >outside, as well as serious internal problems thatcontinue to go
> >unnoticed with-in the BDF," said one of two high ranking
BDFofficers and a
> >private who Reporter interviewed this week."Our soldiers are
sitting on a
> >time bomb. There is frustration anddisappointment on a day-to-day
basis.
> >There will come a point when oursoldiers, out of frustration, will
show
> >absolutely no respect to us at thesenior level, and unfortunately
nothing
> >is being done to address theseproblems," expressed a calm but
serious top
> >BDF officer.The tension, they said, became even more intense
after the
> >apprehension byGuatemalan soldiers, of three of their soldiers and
a
> >police officer inFebruary of this year. "Border patrols were
suspended
> >after the apprehension of the four securitypersonnel. After these
men were
> >freed on bail in Guatemala, they jumpedbail and returned to
Belize. The
> >decision to have them jump bail, couldescalate into serious impact
on our
> >soldiers who are patrolling theBelize/Guatemalan borderline."Our
soldiers
> >are patrolling in fear, as a result of this situation. Theyare
greatly
> >concerned that should they come across a platoon of
Guatemalansoldiers,
> >which numbers forty strong and who are well equipped
withammunition, it
> >is likely that they could be easily overpowered and takeninto
Guatemala,
> >with the high possibility of being charged and jailed," onetop
official
> >said.Commandant designate of the BDF, Colonel Cedrick Borland,
refuted
> >theseallegations and painted a rosier picture of what he
described as
> >progressin the BDF. He conceded that there exist certain threats
along
> >the borderline.Colonel Borland said that the training which the
soldiers
> >go throughrequires them to achieve a certain level of readiness.
He said
> >that thereis a refresher's course that soldiers participate in,
and this
> >keeps themup with certain standard."Our soldiers have been
trained to
> >deal with these situations and trainingis a continuous process to
ensure
> >that our soldiers are kept in the higheststandard," Col. Borland
said.The
> >soldiers meanwhile expressed concern that they have been placed in
> >ahostile environment.And with the lack of necessary technical
support,
> >due to limited resources,no systematic plans are in place should
they
> >encounter a situation with theaggressive Guatemalan
military."There is
> >only one vehicle in operation for the BDF base in Toledo.
AtTreetop,
> >there are eight of us, and another group are out on patrol.
Howare we
> >going to be assisted should an incident or accident occur if
thatonly
> >vehicle is not available? There is not even a backup system in
place,"one
> >explained.Col. Borland refuted this claim, stating that there are
two
> >vehiclesavailable at Fairweather Camp.Another problem cited is
the lack
> >of communication in the BDF. Soldierssaid they are rarely
informed of new
> >developments in the BDF. "We usuallyhear of these developments
through
> >the media. We were never informed of theappointment of a new
commandant.
> >We were never told that the Guatemalanswere very upset over the
removal
> >of the flag from Santa Rosa," one of thetop official said.As to
the
> >removal of the flag from the school in Santa Rosa, the
soldierssaid that
> >they had to remove the flag during nighttime, when the
villagerswere
> >already in their homes.One soldier says that just recently they
came
> >across an illegal Guatemalansettlement in an area known as
Retiro, in the
> >Cayo district. When theyapproached the settlers and informed them
that
> >they have to return toGuatemala, the settlers told them boldly
that they
> >were not moving, unlessthey are told by the Guatemalan military
to do so.
> >"These settlers arestill there," he said.The soldiers also
complained of
> >living in deplorable conditions and of thedisrespect shown them
by the
> >Ministry of National Security.Col. Borland was more optimism in
the BDF,
> >and said that there is goodcommunication within the BDF. He said
that
> >much improvement has been takingplace at the Fairweather Camp and
the two
> >observation posts in the ToledoDistrict.****A Big Thing!Guatemala
claims
> >Belize disrespectful of her flagGuatemala is making a big thing
over the
> >actions of the BDF in taking downa Guatemalan flag which was
being flown
> >at an illegal settlement withinBelizean borders.The Guatemalan
> >squatters were told to leave and the flag was removed. Itwas later
> >delivered over to the Guatemalan Embassy in Belize City.The
Prensa Libre
> >newspaper of Sunday, November 5 reports what happenedlater.
President
> >Portillo organized a Flag Tribute ceremony with militaryguard of
honour
> >and senior members of the government, including ForeignMinister
> >Orellana.The dignitaries at the ceremony included the Presidents
of the
> >Judiciaryand the Legislature, Hugo Maul Figueroa and Efrain Rios
Montt.
> >The flag wasturned over to the Minister of Defence, Juan de Dios
Estrada,
> >whosubsequently delivered it to the Minister of Education, Mario
> >Torres.Torres is to attend a flag-raising ceremony at the opening
of the
> >newschool year (2001) for students of Santa Rosa School in Peten.
The
> >ceremonyis to be accompanied by a 21-gun salute.Orellana said
during a
> >speech he made on this occasion that it was sheerinsanity to
pretend to
> >stain the honour of the Guatemalan flag.He said that Guatemala was
> >sending a message to Belize and to the worldthat Guatemala would
defend
> >her homeland ("su tierra y su hogar")!Orellana added: "The
government of
> >Belize realized the error it hadcommitted, and in response to the
just
> >Guatemalan protest, had returnedthe patriotic
symbol."Ambassador Jorge
> >Skinner Klee made a special trip from Belize to take theflag back
to
> >Guatemala. He handed it over to President Alfonso Portillo.The
elaborate
> >ceremony was held at the Guatemalan Air Force base in
> >thecapital.Ambassador Skinner Klee also took the opportunity
while in
> >Guatemala toreport that his Embassy in Belize had received a bomb
threat.
> >He said alsothat the consulate in Belize had been the target
of "criminal
> >acts", namelyrobberies involving the property of Guatemalan
diplomats.The
> >Prensa Libre notes that Guatemala is claiming 12.272 square
kilometersof
> >land from Belize.It provided no details as to what part of the
country
> >the Guatemalans now want.Prensa Libre reported also that during
the last
> >three years, incursions bythe Belize military have intensified
against
> >settlements in the provinceof Peten.***From Channel 5: Details
released
> >of Belize-Guatemala agreement
> >More details have become available on the agreement signed
Wednesday
> >between Belize and Guatemala. The twelve point document, signed
at OAS
> >headquarters in Washington D.C., deals solely with confidence
building
> >measures that will be undertaken by both countries along their
common
> >border.
> >Article one lays the groundwork by stipulating that the measures
outlined
> >in the document are temporary for the purpose of easing tensions
and do
> >not prejudice any claims to sovereignty by either country over any
> >territory, now or in the future.
> >Article two states that unless extended by mutual agreement, these
> >measures expire on August thirty-first, 2001.
> >Article three, while noting one and two, specifies recognition of
what is
> >called an "adjacency line." Coincidentally, this adjacency line
exactly
> >follows the traditional borderline from Gracias a Dios in the
south to
> >Garbutt's Falls and Aguas Turbias in the north. Use of the line,
however,
> >does not imply that it represents an international boundary.
> >Under article four, the parties agree to identify all existing
markers and
> >survey the line. They will also identify all settlements within one
> >kilometre on each side.
> >Article five specifies that this two kilometre wide swath of land
shall be
> >called the "adjacency zone."
> >Article six, the real meat of the agreement, deals with how things
will be
> >run in the adjacency zone, namely: all settlements which existed
in the
> >zone as of October first of this year shall remain undisturbed,
save for
> >marijuana farms. Those settlements established after October
first and
> >lie east of the line may be removed by the Belize Government,
using a set
> >procedure. All settlers in the zone prior to October first will be
> >identified and their nationality documented. Any Guatemalans
residing on
> >the Belize side of the line and any Belizeans on the Guatemalan
side will
> >be issued a license to stay and are bound to respect the laws of
the
> >country on the particular side of the line where they reside.
> >Additionally, Guatemala will undertake a campaign to dissuade its
> >citizens from settling to the east of the adjacency line, and at
the same
> >time the two countries' military forces will co-ordinate their
activities
> >in the area.
> >Articles seven through eleven obligate the two countries to promote
> >community contacts across the line, facilitate traffic and meet
regularly
> >to avoid conflicts. These measures will include the prevention of
> >incidents, which could cause tension, and the formulation of
plans for a
> >response to natural disasters.
> >Finally, article twelve asks the parties to monitor the confidence
> >building measures and work together to resolve any problems. If
that
> >proves difficult, then any contentious issues should be referred
to the
> >two facilitators who may, if they wish, ask the OAS to appoint a
> >fact-finding mission.
> >The facilitator for Belize is Sir Shridath Ramphal, while
Guatemala has
> >appointed Paul Reichler. The agreement was signed in Washington,
D.C. by
> >Belizean Ambassador Assad Shoman and Guatemalan Foreign Minister
Gabriel
> >Orellana.
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >
> >
> >Doug
> >
> >
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