ok brendan
beautiful visitation report
& glad to have these corrections & multi negations
from which i gather you mean you would end the multipoint chronology
attempted below with the treaty of versailles itself in 1919 rather than
continue it to 1977
& that the bedenl tripoint actually reached its present configuration no
later than versailles itself
since both moresnet & eupenmalmedy effectively became belgium at that time
regardless of the bogus plebiscite & bogus ratification & the subsequent
reorganizations you mentioned
that is fine with me
nor do i regret the loss of this putative ghost quintipoint in any case
since i believe its removal from consideration leaves on the quinti level
besides an also recently defunct quintiadministrative point of a certain
pacific archipelago whose name i forget
only the actual quinticounty point of lake okeechobee
aka usfl3glhemaokpa
still in the running for global maxipoint
i mean it is no longer any contest at all so far as i can tell
glhemaokpa simply is the global maxipoint designate
& i probably dont have to remind anyone here that the pa of glhemaokpa is
none other than palm beach county
so if anyone was wanting more of a recount there we would have to also
recount glades & hendry & martin & okeechobee counties too within the
global meltdown epicenter
m
>>From: "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@...>
>
>no, no ,no,
>what i meant was, accordingf to Versailles, Moresnet was integrated into
>Belgium along with Epen/Malmedy (subject to a plebiscite where those NOT
>wanting to be Belgianised could sign a register in public in front of
>Belgian police. some free vote! Funnily enough, few did so.
>So 1921 (or 22?) it was all confirmed, belgium having admined the area in
>the meantime.
>Moresnet became a Belgiuan commune then, and it was not until the municipal
>reoganisation of 1977 that commune Moresnet was joined to other communes to
>make a new, larger commune. Neutral Moresnet disappeared in 1918/9 at
>Versailles.
>Apparently the border stones still exist and thesre is a wlkaing trail
>around them. The day i was there (yesterday) there was a hunt on in the
>forest making up much of the old Neut Moresnet, so it was offlimits because
>of Belgian idiots running riot with red jackets and shotguns.
>So for a while the Belgian border was more dangerous to me than the Indian
>border!
>
>Brendan
>
>
>>From: michael donner <m@...>
>>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@egroups.com
>>To: boundarypoint@egroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] tp belgium germany holland aka bedenl
>>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:27:40 -0400
>>
>><http://home.hccnet.nl/c.damen/images/landkaart/landkaart_stip.jpg>
>>http://home.hccnet.nl/c.damen/images/landkaart/landkaart_stip.jpg gives a
>>nice outline map of neutral moresnet & shows how it used to meet the bedenl
>>point in at least a quadripoint
>>
>>note
>> netherlands is at upper left
>> germany is at upper right
>> old belgium is to the left of the blue dot area
>> moresnet or kelmis is within the blue dot area
>> eupen malmedy is to the right of the blue dot area
>>
>>upon further study
>>i believe this bedenl point may also have been not just a legal quadripoint
>>but fully a legal quintipoint between 1919 & 1922
>>still only trinational in composition but quintipartite in form
>>when the 2 distinct but adjacent & convergent expatriated zones are
>>considered along with & separate from the 3 countries themselves
>>
>>based on the info from brendan below & gideon & other sources
>>the chronology of the development of the point seems to be
>>1815 tripoint moresnet netherlands prussia north
>>1839 quadripoint belgium moresnet netherlands prussia
>>1871 quadripoint belgium germany moresnet netherlands
>>1919 quintipoint belgium eupen&malmedy germany moresnet netherlands
>>1922 quadripoint belgium germany kelmis netherlands
>>1940 1945 intermezzo
>>1945 quadripoint belgium germany kelmis netherlands resumes
>>1977 tripoint belgium germany netherlands
>>
>>the trickiest part occurs between the treaty of versailles in 1919 & the
>>belated belgian confirmation to the league of nations in 1922 that the
>>confirmational plebiscite mandated for eupen malmedy in 1920 was in fact
>>completed
>>
>>if the moresnet or kelmis area was not fully integrated into belgium until
>>1977 as mentioned below
>>but remained until then & except during world war 2 an international rather
>>than an exclusively belgian entity & territory
>> the terms of the treaty of versailles to the contrary notwithstanding
>>& if eupen malmedy was also not fully & legally integrated into belgium
>>until after the league of nations confirmed the plebiscite in 1922
>>then bedenl was a legal quintipoint between 1919 & 1922
>>& still a legal quadripoint as recently as 1977
>> or i am deceived
>>
>>m
>>
>>
>>
>> >thank you brendan
>> >
>> >these are the data i wanted
>> >
>> >fantastic
>> >
>> >m
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Actually it was a quadripoint from 1815-1918.
>> >>Moresnet was in dispute between Prussia and Holland afteer the Congress
>>of
>> >>Vienna and so became a neutral zone between them (it contianed a
>>valuable
>> >>zinc mine).
>> >>In 1830 Belgium became indep, and Moresnet became a Belg/Prussian
>>neutral
>> >>zone, but still connected to Netherlands by a single point.
>> >>1918 treaty of Versailles, Belgium was awarded Eupen in Prussia (to be
>> >>affirmed by a 'plebiscite'in 1920) and so apart fomr the point, Moresnet
>>was
>> >>now totally surrounded by Belgium (still it met Neth and Germany at the
>> >>point), so it was given to Belgium too.
>> >>In 1977 Moresnet commune was amalgamated with nearby commeunes, so the
>>shape
>> >>of it has changed only recently. 1815-1977 it existed as an
>>international
>> >>entity or a commune (called Kelmis by the Belgians).
>> >>Brendan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>From: michael donner <m@...>
>> >>>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@egroups.com
>> >>>To: BoundaryPoint@egroups.com
>> >>>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] tp belgium germany holland aka bedenl
>> >>>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:32:31 -0400
>> >>>
>> >>>the present bedenl point was between 1919 & 1922 actually a
>> >>> >trinational quadripoint with a binational bede neutral zone
>> >>> >& the conjunction as a whole was therefore topologically identical to
>>the
>> >>> >other suspected similarly defunct example which arif is on the track
>>of
>> >>>at
>> >>> >present day tp iraq kuwait saudi arabia
>> >>>
>> >>>& if you zoom in on bedenl at mapquest
>> >>>you will see a municipal boundary also converging upon it from the ssw
>> >>>which in fact formerly separated the bede neutral zone from belgium
>> >>>& thus for a few years promoted this tp into a trinational quadripoint
>> >>>
>> >>>m
>>
>>
>>
>
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