no, no ,no,
what i meant was, accordingf to Versailles, Moresnet was integrated into
Belgium along with Epen/Malmedy (subject to a plebiscite where those NOT
wanting to be Belgianised could sign a register in public in front of
Belgian police. some free vote! Funnily enough, few did so.
So 1921 (or 22?) it was all confirmed, belgium having admined the area in
the meantime.
Moresnet became a Belgiuan commune then, and it was not until the municipal
reoganisation of 1977 that commune Moresnet was joined to other communes to
make a new, larger commune. Neutral Moresnet disappeared in 1918/9 at
Versailles.
Apparently the border stones still exist and thesre is a wlkaing trail
around them. The day i was there (yesterday) there was a hunt on in the
forest making up much of the old Neut Moresnet, so it was offlimits because
of Belgian idiots running riot with red jackets and shotguns.
So for a while the Belgian border was more dangerous to me than the Indian
border!
Brendan
>From: michael donner <m@...>
>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@egroups.com
>To: boundarypoint@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] tp belgium germany holland aka bedenl
>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:27:40 -0400
>
>http://home.hccnet.nl/c.damen/images/landkaart/landkaart_stip.jpg gives a
>nice outline map of neutral moresnet & shows how it used to meet the bedenl
>point in at least a quadripoint
>
>note
> netherlands is at upper left
> germany is at upper right
> old belgium is to the left of the blue dot area
> moresnet or kelmis is within the blue dot area
> eupen malmedy is to the right of the blue dot area
>
>upon further study
>i believe this bedenl point may also have been not just a legal quadripoint
>but fully a legal quintipoint between 1919 & 1922
>still only trinational in composition but quintipartite in form
>when the 2 distinct but adjacent & convergent expatriated zones are
>considered along with & separate from the 3 countries themselves
>
>based on the info from brendan below & gideon & other sources
>the chronology of the development of the point seems to be
>1815 tripoint moresnet netherlands prussia north
>1839 quadripoint belgium moresnet netherlands prussia
>1871 quadripoint belgium germany moresnet netherlands
>1919 quintipoint belgium eupen&malmedy germany moresnet netherlands
>1922 quadripoint belgium germany kelmis netherlands
>1940 1945 intermezzo
>1945 quadripoint belgium germany kelmis netherlands resumes
>1977 tripoint belgium germany netherlands
>
>the trickiest part occurs between the treaty of versailles in 1919 & the
>belated belgian confirmation to the league of nations in 1922 that the
>confirmational plebiscite mandated for eupen malmedy in 1920 was in fact
>completed
>
>if the moresnet or kelmis area was not fully integrated into belgium until
>1977 as mentioned below
>but remained until then & except during world war 2 an international rather
>than an exclusively belgian entity & territory
> the terms of the treaty of versailles to the contrary notwithstanding
>& if eupen malmedy was also not fully & legally integrated into belgium
>until after the league of nations confirmed the plebiscite in 1922
>then bedenl was a legal quintipoint between 1919 & 1922
>& still a legal quadripoint as recently as 1977
> or i am deceived
>
>m
>
>
>
> >thank you brendan
> >
> >these are the data i wanted
> >
> >fantastic
> >
> >m
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Actually it was a quadripoint from 1815-1918.
> >>Moresnet was in dispute between Prussia and Holland afteer the Congress
>of
> >>Vienna and so became a neutral zone between them (it contianed a
>valuable
> >>zinc mine).
> >>In 1830 Belgium became indep, and Moresnet became a Belg/Prussian
>neutral
> >>zone, but still connected to Netherlands by a single point.
> >>1918 treaty of Versailles, Belgium was awarded Eupen in Prussia (to be
> >>affirmed by a 'plebiscite'in 1920) and so apart fomr the point, Moresnet
>was
> >>now totally surrounded by Belgium (still it met Neth and Germany at the
> >>point), so it was given to Belgium too.
> >>In 1977 Moresnet commune was amalgamated with nearby commeunes, so the
>shape
> >>of it has changed only recently. 1815-1977 it existed as an
>international
> >>entity or a commune (called Kelmis by the Belgians).
> >>Brendan
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: michael donner <m@...>
> >>>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@egroups.com
> >>>To: BoundaryPoint@egroups.com
> >>>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] tp belgium germany holland aka bedenl
> >>>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:32:31 -0400
> >>>
> >>>the present bedenl point was between 1919 & 1922 actually a
> >>> >trinational quadripoint with a binational bede neutral zone
> >>> >& the conjunction as a whole was therefore topologically identical to
>the
> >>> >other suspected similarly defunct example which arif is on the track
>of
> >>>at
> >>> >present day tp iraq kuwait saudi arabia
> >>>
> >>>& if you zoom in on bedenl at mapquest
> >>>you will see a municipal boundary also converging upon it from the ssw
> >>>which in fact formerly separated the bede neutral zone from belgium
> >>>& thus for a few years promoted this tp into a trinational quadripoint
> >>>
> >>>m
>
>
>
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