i like to think the 2 great canals form the 2 great divides of the 4 great
continents
not that europe & australia & antarctica are not great mind you
but i have also seen the colombia panama & the egypt israel boundaries
represented as the true lines also
still the canals are so nice & neat
& they do represent physical discontinuities
which seems to be the whole point
& no harm in this either
since all 3 of the great intercontinental divides are thus actually human
artworks
m
>
>The Asia-Europe boundary markers come as a huge surprise to me.
>
>I have always thought that the Ural mountain boundary was just a broad
>undefined aproximate line, and now there are markers!
>
>Where is the Asia-Africa boundary line then? and N - S America?
>
>Jesper
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "michael donner" <m@...>
>To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Contient marker
>
>
>gorgeous stuff peter
>
>this is our finest happy hour
>
>wonderful to see how a presumably all natural boundary still had to be
>diligently searched out & agreed upon
>& how an initially vague consensus gradually grew into official reality
>
> yet with seemingly nothing of consequence ever really dependent on it
>
>
>i would suggest that this round score of obelisks redeem all obeliskoids
>everywhere & naturally comprise a premium search category
>
>
>also the fact that parts of the intercontinental boundary dont coincide
>with any administrative boundaries only emphasizes its rarefaction & purity
>
>so it is truly a monumental line
>& especially so wherever it is not a boundary
>
>m
>
>
>>
>>Another fine Europe-Asia boundary marker. Nice one.
>>
>>This boundary is intriguing: it is a continent boundary, but there
>>are sections of it that don't coincide with any administrative
>>boundary. This is why even the Russians don't always know for sure
>>where that boundary is.
>>
>>I found two Russian articles on the internet, which I have translated
>>for you. Do visit the second article yourself, though: it has nice
>>illustrations.
>>
>>The first one:
>>
>>The Sibirka - a boundary stream
>>
>>Yuriy Dunayev
>>
>>Ten kilometres west of Nizhneye Selo, on the road to Staroutkinsk, we
>>cross a bridge over the little river that bears the name Sibirka. It
>>starts on the eastern slope of the Kirgishan heights and after 16
>>kilometres pours its waters into the Chusovaya from the left.
>>The well-known scholar of Siberian history P.A. Slovtsov considered
>>this little river the boundary of ancient Siberia. Before the Ural
>>was visited by Alexander Humboldt and Gustav Rose, however, in the
>>world of science the name Ural was given to a less significant
>>height, which is situated considerably more to the west - between the
>>coach stations Kirgishanskaya and Grobovskaya, and which constitutes
>>the water divide between some tributaries of the Chusovaya and the
>>Ufa.
>>Peter the Greats ambassador to China, Izbrant Ides, considered, for
>>example, the right bank of the Chusovaya, where the Stroganov
>>settlements ended, at the place the Mezhevaya Utka flows into the
>>Chusovaya, as the beginning of Asia. Academician I.G. Gmelin, who is
>>known for his many years of travel through Siberia with S. Müller,
>>travelled from Kungur to Yekaterinburg almost exactly along the
>>present Moscow-Siberia trail, and considered the Ural mountain range
>>to be one of the ridges that runs parallel to the Ural, and to which
>>belongs Klenovaya mountain, at the foot of which at that time the
>>boundary post was situated.
>>Doctor A. Erman from Berlin, who travelled across the Ural in 1828
>>together with the Norwegian scientist professor Heistens and
>>lieutenant Douai, had his attention drawn by his coachmen to
>>Kirgishan mountain, who said that that's where the boundary between
>>Russia and Siberia is. That's why it is not surprising that P.A.
>>Slovtsov too considered the little river Sibirka to be the boundary
>>river. He wasn't mistaken, either.
>>A testimony of the fact that the boundary used to run along this
>>little river is the find by the pupils of Staroutkinsk school no. 13
>>of an ancient boundary stone on one of the banks of the Sibirka. This
>>stone divided, according to its inscription, Muscovy and the Sibirian
>>khanate. That is why the stream Sibirka, which flows into the
>>Chusovaya at a spot at 57°09' N. lat., is the most ancient boundary
>>of Russia and Siberia, and this is why it got its name, too.
>>By the way, A. Dmitriev in "Permskaya starina" mentions, that in 1681
>>the village Sibirka was situated on the banks of the river - and
>>consisted of only one farm.
>>
>>Source: <<http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-06.html>
>>http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-06.html>
>><http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-06.html>
>>http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-06.html
>>
>>The second one (yes, Russians seem to call every boundary marker an
>>obelisk!):
>>
>>Boundary guard in the Ural
>>
>>V. Terentyev
>>
>>More than three thousand kilometres the Ural mountains stretch from
>>north to south. This mountainous boundary in the centre of Russia is
>>firmly established and is maintained to this day. This is a big merit
>>of the great statesman and explorer of the Ural, Vasiliy Nikitich
>>Tatishchev. He is the first Russian that called these mountains Ural.
>>
>>Tatishchev was also the man that came to the conclusion the Ural
>>mountains were on the border of two parts of the world: Europe and
>>Asia. This boundary, drawn by V.N. Tatishchev two and a half
>>centuries ago, in spite of its conditional nature, still holds its
>>historical meaning, is known the world over and is fixed by many
>>obelisks with the inscription "Europe-Asia".
>>
>>The placing of these started in the Ural mountains already in the
>>last century and is still being continued. The boundary markers were
>>put up along the entire Ural range. They continue to attract
>>tourists, because every one of them is different and has its own
>>look. At present there are approximately twenty obelisks. A precise
>>figure cannot be given, because no one has ever counted them, and
>>news of them mostly comes from scholars of local history and tourists.
>>
>>In the central Ural area, in the Sverdlovsk province and around
>>Nizhniy Tagil, there are many interesting and originally constructed
>>border obelisks. At the occasion of the visit to our region of the
>>successor to the throne, the future Russian emperor Alexander II in
>>1837, the first marker "Europe-Asia" was placed in the Ural
>>mountains - a marble pyramid with the coat-of-arms of the czar. After
>>the October revolution it was destroyed, being a symbol of czarist
>>power. On this spot in 1926 a new obelisk was erected. It stands on
>>the Siberian trail some forty kilometres from Yekaterinburg, in the
>>Pervouralsk rayon.
>>
>>Another monument from the last century, built in 1868 by order and at
>>the expense of the gold industrialists of the Northern Ural, can
>>still be seen today. It stands at the village Kedrovka on the road
>>>from Kushva to Serebryanka. It is made of cast iron, and the form
>>resembles a bell tower. The central part is crowned by a red, raised
>>cupola, and on the corners are round columns, that are also crowned
>>by small cupolas. They used to be gilded, and on the back side the
>>czarist coat-of-arms shined. In the civil war the obelisk was
>>destroyed. But tourists of the Nizhnyaya Salda factory have recently
>>restored it.
>>
>>The address of another boundary marker is probably known to many: the
>>mountain pass crossing the Vysokie Gory ridge near the village of
>>Uralets on the road Nizhniy Tagil-Visim. It is a square column with a
>>height of six metres. On top of it is a model of the earth globe,
>>around which along a steel orbit turn a satellite and the space
>>ship "Vostok".
>>
>>>From Nizhniy Tagil another marker can be reached: at the 25th
>>kilometre of the Serebryanskiy trail you are met by a stele, placed
>>there in honour of the 50th anniversary of October.
>>
>>Interesting are the geographical location and the history of the
>>northernmost of all boundary markers "Europe-Asia". It stands at the
>>coast of the Yugorskiy Shar strait. Here the Ural range "dives" into
>>the waters of the Arctic Ocean. The marker was placed here in 1973 by
>>the members of an expedition on the ship "Zamora", sailing from
>>Archangel to Dickson. This is a modest and simple obelisk. They got a
>>rusty anchor somewhere, attached a chain to it, and to a metal pipe a
>>sign was attached, with the inscription "Europe-Asia" on it.
>>
>>Further, along the whole Ural range, obelisks form a chain, going
>>>from north to south right to the city of Orenburg.
>>
>>Apart from the official "registered" obelisks there are in the Ural
>>mountains a whole range of do-it-yourself ones, put up by tourists,
>>school children, forest workers. For example, in the vicinity of
>>Tagil near the village of Yelizavetinskoye on the old winter trail
>>Tagil-Visim woodcutters have put up their sign: they planted a pine
>>pole of about four metres in the ground, and on a surface made flat
>>at the top they cut out the words "Europe-Asia". And in this way the
>>boundary signs are put up.
>>
>>On the pictures: this is how the boundary markers look like in the
>>Central Ural mountains; the northernmost obelisk on the bank of the
>>Arctic Ocean.
>>
>>Source: <<http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm>
>>http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm>
>><http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm> http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm
>>
>>Peter S.
>>
>>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., granthutchison@c... wrote:
>>> > <<http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?http%>
>>>http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?http%>
>>><http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?http%>
>>>http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?http%
>>> 3A//www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/reading.html
>>>
>>> Ah, the only border monument mentioned in this group that I've
>>> actually visited. I hung out of the space between two carriages on
>>> the Trans-Siberian railway, camera at the ready, counting the km
>>> markers towards 1777. Then the thing shot past at 60mph, and I hit
>>> the shutter button more by reflex than anything else. The picture
>>> turned out perfectly composed, as if I'd stood beside the line and
>>> taken all the time in the world to line up and shoot!
>>> The railway side (the only side I saw) has "<-Europe" and "Asia->"
>>in
>>> Cyrillic, as I recall. I'll dig out the slide and project it to
>>make
>>> sure.
>>>
>>> Grant
>>
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