Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: divided islands-an answer
Date: Apr 28, 2001 @ 15:57
Author: michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
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exactly peter
but here is the part of your or probably rather descheemaekers symbolism
i still dont get

i understand that the condo island functions as a symbolic boundary monument
no problem
that is as a monument to & witness of the esfr boundary

but since the island isnt situated upon the boundary line itself
the way real boundary islets are
say in scandinavia
but is rather an enclave & without condo tripoints
it seems to me not a hyper monument at all but rather a hypo monument

& i am left wondering how something that is physically off line & off point
can adequately symbolize or epitomize or in any other real way recapitulate
what is on line & on point

i mean arent symbols supposed to be true representations of truths
rather than muffed representations of misses

for otherwise what is the point

m

>
>That is exactly what they are. See messages 1936, 1948 (the link to
>Statens Kartverk) and 1952.
>
>The symbolism of good neighbourhood Peter H. mentions is another sign
>we are not dealing with a boundary drawn without knowing what is in
>the way. It is interesting to read in the Descheemaeker article that
>at first, the Scandinavian solution was considered for the Ile de la
>Conference, actually dividing the island between Spain and France,
>but that in the end the condominium solution was chosen, because this
>was seen to be a continuation of the de facto situation, where the
>island was used for international conferences and similar meetings
>for which you need ground that is more or less 'neutral'.
>
>So the Ile de la Conference can be considered a very big boundary
>marker, in function similar to the St. Martins Stone (also a place
>where international treaties are concluded or renewed).
>
>A real symbol not only of the dividing nature of boundaries, but also
>of being good neighbours.
>
>And another thing: "conflicts over ownership make no sense", like
>Peter H. said, says a lot about the Scandinavians themselves; more
>often you hear retorics about "not one inch of the holy ground of our
>fathers will be yielded" in the rest of the world!
>
>Peter S.
>
>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., David Mark <dmark@g...> wrote:
>> Are the divided islands in Scandanavia TURNING POINTS in the
>boundaries?
>> With the precise turning point at the peak or center of the
>island? If
>> so, Peter's boundary marker theory seems obviously correct.
>>
>> But if the boundary is a straight line cutting the island, it can be
>> hardly anything other than a co-incidence.
>>
>> Islands cut by boundaries can be expected anywhere that a fiat
>boundary,
>> drawn on a map without knowing the details on the ground, crosses a
>region
>> that contains islands. Lakes with islands are relatively rare on a
>global
>> scale, most of them are in glaciated areas: Scandanavia and Canada
>and the
>> former Soviet Union. Fiat boundaries should divide islands by chance
>> mainly in those regions.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Peter Hering wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Arif,
>> > concerning divided islands in Scandinavia,
>> > this is my guess:
>> > 1- they act as boundary markers - easy to
>> > see, instead of buoys...
>> > 2- since most of Scandinavian border regions
>> > are inhabited by only very few people,
>> > conflicts over ownership make no sense...
>> > 3- they symbolize good neighbourhood!
>> >
>> > Anyway, Jesper and I are planning a short
>> > 2 day expedition to the southern part of the
>> > SeNo border and plant BoundaryPoint's flag
>> > on these islands - wanna come...?!?
>> > Regards - good weekend
>> > Peter H.
>> >
>> > -------Original Message-------
>> >
>> > From: Arif Samad
>> > Date: Friday, April 27, 2001 23:49:57
>> > To: BoundaryPoint@y...
>> > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Indian mess - French to blame?
>> >
>> > Brendan, Thank you for the research. I guess
>> > Goretty disappeared as an enclave at some time. I
>> > have not been able to find the 1991 census handbook,
>> > so you are definitely more current.
>> > I should have rephrased my question on divided
>> > islands. I noticed there are other islands that are
>> > divided, but the big islands mentioned were divided
>> > with full knowledge of colonial consequences. They
>> > are big islands that had to be divided as different
>> > groups were in control of parts before the islands
>> > were eventually divided and the division couldn't be
>> > circumvented. Only US-Canada and Scandinavian borders
>> > seem to divide tiny islands that could easily be
>> > circumnavigated by the boundary lines. I wonder why
>> > that is. Mike's explanation makes a lot of sense
>> > though. Then again, all of them could just be
>> > mistakes.
>> > Brendan, don't you have the points for Baarle?
>> > Maybe you could create excel charts of the small
>> > enclaves in Baarle like ones done for Cyprus.
>> > Arif
>> >
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