much obliged for all these responses peter
& please relax about the scanning
as my curiosity is purely idyll
& i dont really mind being in the dark
& what a thrill to have yet another authority blow up in my face
or was that a local informant
hahahaha
anyway i think it must be my whole interest in distinguishing real from
bogus that is attracting all these bogus & real data
glad i am at least learning to hedge a little better tho
haha
but ok i think the fallout so far is
we have fairly well found & have almost seen if not reached both of the
dedelulu tripoints
while we remain unsure of the monument number but not the position of the
southerly unit
more importantly tho
we have found at vianden the true beginning & new castle of the european union
in pretty much exactly the same sense as the new castle in delaware is the
historic hub of the first state & indeed the only state the usa ever had
whether we choose to see this luxembourgeois beginning from 1816 or perhaps
as much as a millennium earlier
i mean
in view of all the historical & geographical & geometrical considerations
anyway
what remains of this condo job i suppose is to scope out the true picture
at bedelu
where you have just come from
isnt that wonderful of you
& thereafter to merely keep alert to any diminishing river condo
probabilities to the northward of bedelu & of bedenl as elsewhere
m
>
>The dam+reservoir dates back to 1954-1964 (
><http://www.eifelfuehrer.de/V/Vianden.html>
>http://www.eifelfuehrer.de/V/Vianden.html ).
>
>The photo at
><http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/~cfd/gallery/images/hyd24>
>http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/~cfd/gallery/images/hyd24 isn't the
>Vianden dam, I think, but another one (possibly the one in the Sauer
>at Esch-sur-Sûre). I can see that because at Vianden there isn't a
>road on the right bank near the dam (the bank is very steep there),
>and, according to my map, the dam is straight rather than bent. So
>the Univ. of Iowa has made a mistake here.
>
>Anyway, a map (without boundaries) can be found at
><http://www.restena.lu/meteo_lcd/papers/radon/seo2000/investigations.ht>
>http://www.restena.lu/meteo_lcd/papers/radon/seo2000/investigations.ht
>ml . The Bassin Inférieur is depicted dark blue. The boundary runs
>over the ridge of the promontory which can be seen just to the north
>of the bridge over the reservoir, left bank. At the tip of it is one
>of the no. 47 stones; the other one is on the opposite bank, very
>close to the bridge and road.
>
>I will try to post a scan of my map here soon, but because my scanner
>is behaving funny lately, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do
>this.
>
>Peter S.
>
>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
>> thanxx to wolfgang & peter for again advancing this so nicely
>>
>> it is great to be part of a group effort
>>
>>
>> also here is a photo of the our area in between the condos
>> <http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/~cfd/gallery/images/hyd24>
>>http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/~cfd/gallery/images/hyd24
>> best i can tell
>> all luxembourg but with germany probably visible in the distance at
>right
>>
>> it was captioned reservoir & dam nearby vianden
>> so it is probably the bassin inferieure facing north toward
>dedelulun
>> aka delu monument 47
>> at a position i think you are calling the promontory
>> which is thus probably situated just around the river bend to the
>right
>> most likely at the foot of the hill that rises at upper right center
>> & therefore presumably within the frame but hidden behind the left
>bank here
>>
>> btw i have tried but still cant date this dam
>> tho a possible twin on the sauer dates from the 1960s
>>
>>
>>
>> but since i am still pdf blind
>> tho luckily not for much longer
>> as a newer computer has recently reached here
>> & will soon be installed
>> any further clues about any of these new pdf data would still be
>enormously
>> appreciated at this late date
>>
>> & i realize this is asking a lot as usual
>> so please excuse it
>> but while i am being such a beggar
>> how about a swatch of your map too peter
>>
>>
>> at all events
>> what i mainly still dont understand here
>> tho i agree you are wise to be happy in any case
>> is first why you are so lightly throwing your feudal guess out
>the window
>> & what you are discarding of it & with it
>> because i liked most if not all of it & what went with it
>>
>> & i also wonder what if anything your doing this has to do with
>whether the
>> condo arrangement predated the 1816 monumentation &or treaty
>> but again this is all probably owing to my working in the dark
>>
>> btw i understood this treaty was agreed in december of 1815
>> or are we talking about 2 different documents also
>>
>>
>> & finally
>> once we get the numbering straight
>> & regardless of whether the delu monuments might be paired
>anywhere
>> along the length of the condos
>> do you not agree with my guess that there will only be single
>monuments
>> marking both dedelulun & dedelulus
>>
>> that is to say
>> 19 & 47 or whatever you call them may be twinned or paired with
>mates on
>> the right bank as i believe you have indicated
>> but both the dedelulu twins here should turn out to be marked on
>their spots
>> by a single monument in each case
>> standing on the left bank only in each case
>>
>> i mean
>> the lines between them & any right bank mates are dedelu lines
>rather than
>> dedelulu lines
>>
>> but this may just be a matter of clarification rather than
>disagreement
>>
>> anyway
>> please do keep dishing what you can & will
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Great stuff, Wolfgang. So, if I understand correctly, the Vianden
>> >land boundary is marked since 1816. It could have existed before
>that
>> >date, of course, but for now I'm happy to throw my feudal guess out
>> >of the window. Some other considerations here, then.
>> >
>> >Still, on my map, it is already at bdy. stone no. 19 the fun
>starts,
>> >whereas in your document you mention 26. On my map, no. 19 is at
>the
>> >river, nos. 20 and 21 at the road border crossing of the road
>> >Vianden - Roth an der Our, no. 24 is near something called "Les
>Trois
>> >Vierges", and nos. 25 to 31 are all around an area called
>Wëngerdelt.
>> >Is the numbering on my map wrong?
>> >
>> >No. 47 is a pair, I think, as can be seen on the map in your
>> >document. It is at the promontory. That one is the real tripoint, I
>> >think (dedelulu). The no. 47 on the right bank is "merely" a
>boundary
>> >mark on the delulu border, and of course the marker (together with
>> >its brother) as to where the condo starts again.
>> >
>> >Interesting is also the myriad of auxiliary border stones
>> >(Zwischengrenzsteine) in the bdy. stone no. 47 area.
>> >
>> >Another thing is that apart from 1816 and 1984, there is a 1930
>> >agreement as well, although that seems to be the formalisation of
>the
>> >situation already in existence. In 1984, something was changed.
>> >Something had to be changed anyway after the building of the dam
>> >which formed the lake.
>> >
>> >You are obviously in possession of a very interesting publication
>> >here, Wolfgang. Does it say anything at all on the origins of the
>> >Vianden border?
>> >
>> >Peter S.
>> >
>> >--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., Gartner Wolfgang <WGartner@k...> wrote:
>> >> hi, enclosed you will find some infos about boundary-stones on
>DE -
>> >LU
>> >> borderline.
>> >>
>> >> <<DELU.PDF>>
>> >>
>> >> Wolfgang Gärtner
>> >> c/o Carl Kliem GmbH
>> >> An der Hauptwache 7
>> >> D 60313 Frankfurt am Main
>> >> Telefon 49-69-9201622
>> >> Fax 49-69-92016312
>> >> Email mailto:wgartner@k...
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>
>><"<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168002.1377235.2965144.2/D=egroupmail/S=17001>
>>http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168002.1377235.2965144.2/D=egroupmail/S=17001
>26166:N/A=6
>> >30090/*<http://mojofarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-59?>
>>http://mojofarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-59?
>bn=Blonds12Free468"
>> >target="_top">Cick for Details Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
>subject to
>> >the <<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=190462.1393721.2979173.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700126166:N/A=55
>1015/?http://www.debticated.com target="_top"> Your use of Yahoo!
>Groups is subject to the <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Yahoo! Terms
>of Service.