Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: zeroing in on breintenstein
Date: Mar 29, 2001 @ 16:20
Author: michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
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>
>At this site:
><http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mairie.wingen-moder/1_patrim.htm>
>http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mairie.wingen-moder/1_patrim.htm (site of the
>municipality of Wingen-sur-Moder), there is talk of three stones:
>Breintenstein (a.k.a. Twelve Apostles Stone), Spitzstein, and
>Drei-Peterstein. It sais here: 'In the time of the Roman Alsace,
>Wingen was part of the homestead of the people of Triboques. On the
>side of the old Via Bassoniaca, a forest road between the province of
>Belgica and that of Germania, its limits are marked by menhirs: the
>Spitzstein, the Drei-Peterstein, and the Breintenstein. In the 18th
>century the Breintenstein was transformed in a cross, pending over the
>figures of the twelve apostles that are sculpted on the 4 sides of the
>stone, hence its name of Twelve Apostles Stone. The Drei-Peterstein
>marks the boundary of the seignories of Bitche, Lichtenberg, and La
>Petite-Pierre.' [in German: Bitsch, Lichtenberg, Luetzelstein].
>
>So, back to Roman ages?? That would be something...
>
>Peter S.
>
>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
>> the exact locality of the stone of the 12 apostles mentioned & shown
>in
>> message 1642 is evidently too tiny to appear on most maps
>>
>> but you can get an idea of its approximate location along the modern
>> departmental boundary mentioned by peter in that message
>> if you type in wingen sur moder france
>> at <http://www.mapquest.com> http://www.mapquest.com
>> & notice the blue line running between the resulting target star & a
>place
>> called meisenthal lying just to its north
>>
>> & you can then zoom out to find yourself near the northeast corner
>of
>> modern france
>>
>> this is an area that appears to have been situated on or near the
>boundary
>> between the duchies of lorraine & swabia
>> both within the holy roman empire until some time after 1200
>> <http://homer.span.ch/~spaw1241/nouest12.htm>
>>http://homer.span.ch/~spaw1241/nouest12.htm
>> when lorraine seems to have emerged as an independent country
>> & when the alsatian area was divided into many fiefs & independent
>cities
>>
>> maps for the period of the disintegration of the holy roman empire
>> beginning with 1270 & continuing thru 1328 & 1382 until some time
>before 1430
>> all at <http://dalmatia.net/belmonte/middle_ages/index.html>
>>http://dalmatia.net/belmonte/middle_ages/index.html
>> make an international divide between lorraine & alsace seem quite
>possible
>> as early as the 13th & 14th centuries
>> but it is still far from certain whether & when any cleavage
>actually
>> occurred in the precise location where the stone is standing
>>
>> the situation appears very complex & shifty
>> & subject to various interpretations besides
>> & i am certainly already in far beyond my depth
>>
>> nevertheless i am hoping this modest reconnaissance helps to inform
>&
>> narrow the search for the hard data needed to know exactly when this
>rock
>> performed international duty
>>
>> m
>
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