Subject: zeroing in on breintenstein<br/>
Date: Mar 29, 2001 @ 02:53<br/>
Author: michael donner (michael donner &lt;m@...&gt;)<br/>
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<div id="ygrps-yiv-779002911">the exact locality of the stone of the 12 apostles mentioned & shown in<br/>
message 1642 is evidently too tiny to appear on most maps<br/>
<br/>
but you can get an idea of its approximate location along the modern<br/>
departmental boundary mentioned by peter in that message<br/>
if you type in  wingen sur moder  france<br/>
at <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mapquest.com">http://www.mapquest.com</a><br/>
& notice the blue line running between the resulting target star & a place<br/>
called meisenthal lying just to its north<br/>
<br/>
& you can then zoom out to find yourself near the northeast corner of<br/>
modern france<br/>
<br/>
this is an area that appears to have been situated on or near the boundary<br/>
between the duchies of lorraine & swabia<br/>
both within the holy roman empire until some time after 1200<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://homer.span.ch/~spaw1241/nouest12.htm">http://homer.span.ch/~spaw1241/nouest12.htm</a><br/>
when lorraine seems to have emerged as an independent country<br/>
& when the alsatian area was divided into many fiefs & independent cities<br/>
<br/>
maps for the period of the disintegration of the holy roman empire<br/>
beginning with 1270 & continuing thru 1328 & 1382 until some time before 1430<br/>
all at <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://dalmatia.net/belmonte/middle_ages/index.html">http://dalmatia.net/belmonte/middle_ages/index.html</a><br/>
make an international divide between lorraine & alsace seem quite possible<br/>
as early as the 13th & 14th centuries<br/>
but it is still far from certain whether & when any cleavage actually<br/>
occurred in the precise location where the stone is standing<br/>
<br/>
the situation appears very complex & shifty<br/>
& subject to various interpretations besides<br/>
& i am certainly already in far beyond my depth<br/>
<br/>
nevertheless i am hoping this modest reconnaissance helps to inform &<br/>
narrow the search for the hard data needed to know exactly when this rock<br/>
performed international duty<br/>
<br/>
m</div>