I like this little philosophical reflection of yours, Michael. I
agree that boundaries, and singularities all the more, are removed
from reality. They exist, but don't take up any space. They HAVE to
exist, because they are needed in order for countries to exist. I
would say that these things are things that belong to nature, just
like forces. You can't grab forces. You can't own them. But you can
prove they're there. And if you can't prove it, you can work with
them in order to prove other things (I hope I make myself clear, I'm
not a physician or mathematician). So I would say the quadripoint
doesn't belong to anybody, because it simply CAN'T BE OWNED.
BUT: If you want to put a marker on the spot, the marker will
obviously take up German and Austrian space. So it seems a good idea
to be practical, for day-to-day-life's sake, and say that the
point 'belongs' to both countries.
Peter S.
--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
> i have been toying with a different approach to this question
>
>
> clearly countries are 3 dimensional objects & are therefore real
> or what i would rather call apparently real
>
> their territorial areas are 2 dimensional forms & purely
representational
> of this reality or apparent reality
> tho they do enjoy a sort of subsidiary apparent reality because
everyone
> believes they are real too
>
> their boundaries are the 1 dimensional cracks enclosing &
separating their
> purely representational forms & are thus a further abstraction &
therefore
> at least doubly remote from being apparently real
>
> & finally their most curious & frankly suspicious effect
> namely their tripoints & other multipoints
> are the zero dimensional holes between the cracks between the
> representations of apparent reality
> & so these are relatively the most apparently unreal of all
> or if you prefer absolutely apparently unreal
> or at least somehow well beyond what we normally call real
>
> & so everyone will tell you
> well these points dont really exist
> & it is a remarkable paradox you will just have to eat
>
>
> boundary cross points by contrast do actually leave this world
momentarily
> like an electrical spark somehow jumping out of its insulation
>
> so these rarest & most suspicious phenomena are beyond beyond if
you will
> having a dimensionality that might be expressed however implausibly
as
> minus 1
>
>
>
> now it is my guess that one reason why we are all so fascinated by
> boundaries is that we intuitively recognize them as cracks in normal
> apparent reality
> & therefore as openings into nonnormal reality
> & moreover some of us are even more nuts about the tripoints in
particular
> because we can recognize them for the absolutely brilliant hot
spots in
> reality that they are
>
> like they really shouldnt ought to exist somehow
> but somehow they almost do manage to pull it off
>
> they are nearly but not quite physical openings into nonphysical
reality
>
> manmade but still natural white holes in the fabric of continuity
>
> in short they are openings into the absolute
> the totality
> all that is
> which in reality we ourselves also are
> but we just usually cant see this very well from where we are
>
> so the point & the pointer are one because all is one
> & it is you yourself who are holding austria together
> as well as germany together
> as well as yourself & indeed all that is together
> when you focus on that funny little point
>
> & it is only because the world is really upside down that reality
seems
> like illusion & illusion seems like reality
>
> in real absolute reality there are no countries nor territories nor
> boundaries nor even any points
> & the world is equally free for all
>
> in that reality there is only inner being
> comprising thought & feeling & sensation
> of which it is all one gigantic condo
> which i would & do seriously call everyones land
>
>
> so it seems to me that multi pointing or even just try pointing is
a very
> effective way of challenging & freeing oneself from all the
delusions of
> individuated physical reality
>
> & a crossing point on a mountain top or in a cornfield or forest
> or even just any old monster rock or quintipoint
> or whatever other marvel works for you
> might provide a particularly good opportunity & spot to do that
>
> m
>
>
>
> >
> >>Jungholz is connected to the rest of Austria by a single point.
That is
> >>alrady established.
> >>
> >>On the other hand Germany is also connected with herself at that
point.
> >>Right?
> >
> >Right
> >
> >
> >So if Germany is connected is then Jungholz disconnected ie an
enclave?
> >>
> >No. BOTH are connected there, and yet both disconnected. That is
why single
> >points are called singularities, because they are truly singular!
> >
> >
> >>Who owns the point?
> >BOTH
> >
> >
> >No man's land or a condominium? If point is a no man's land then
Jungholz is
> >a fragtment (as it is touched by no man's land and Germany).
> >>
> >>If condominium then Jungholz is also a fragtment as it is touched
by
> >>Germany/Austria and Austria!
> >
> >It is 100% surrounded by Germany, and at the same time is not
disconnected
> >fomr Austria.
> >It is not a fragment, or an enclave as it is not disconnected.
> >
> >Let's take another exmaple. On the Dutch-German border, the border
must be a
> >string of points. Who owns them? If Germany owns them, then the
border is
> >the NEXt set of points to the west. And vice versa if Holland owns
them.
> >If neither own them then Germany does not border Holland, it
borders a
> >neutral zone and you have to ask what about the points along THAT
border...
> >A border is an infinitely thin line, but it must be a point. It
must exist.
> >It is not the gap between a German point and a Dutch point.
Because if there
> >is a gap, there must be ap oint to fill it.
> >For every point m and n, where n>m, there exists a point p such
that m<p<n.
> >Ad infinitum.
> >We get into mathematics here. It's beutiful. Even if you were only
as wide
> >as a single point, you could not get to Jungholz fomr austrai
without
> >violating German sovereignty (which is probably not a wise thing
to do ;)
> >).
> >And vice versa for crossing the point from Germany to Germany.
> >Even more so for objects in the real world that DO have width.
> >
> >So while Jungholz cannot access austrai without violating Germn
soil, yet at
> >the same time Germans cannot encircle Jungholz without leaving
Germany and
> >violating Austria.
> >
> >It's a paradox!
> >
> >It's a frozen snapshot of that instant in time when two waterdrops
join to
> >one, or one splits into two. It is quite remarkable.
> >
> >B