Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Largest enclave
Date: Mar 13, 2001 @ 23:38
Author: Brendan Whyte ("Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@...>)
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>From: peter.smaardijk@..._________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Largest enclave
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:36:52 -0000
>
>In short: claves should always be surrounded by dry land. We might
>expand this notion, and include territorial waters as well (inland
>waters (like rivers) are already included in the notion 'dry land').
>I would feel for it to do that. But no further. Territorial waters
>are just the same as dry territory, except for one thing as Martin
>pointed out: 'innocent passage' of ships. It has to stay innocent,
>though. If you're up to anything nasty, you are going to have to deal
>with the law of the country concerned.....
>B.t.w.: I just looked up the words 'enclave' and 'exclave' in a Dutch
>dictionary, and in both cases the word 'grondgebied' (meaning
>territory, but litterally 'territory of soil') is the pivotal word in
>the explanation.
>
>Peter S.
>
>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
> > yes i agree
> > & i see you have also anticipated my hole card point here too
> >
> > the overseas classes
> > both the insular & the continental
> > of so called claves dont at all have the same keyhole feel as the
>normal sort
> > so at least etymologically there has been a slippage & distortion
>here that
> > i would also tend to back away from
> >
> > m
> >
> >
> > >
> > >michael donner wrote:
> > >
> > >> thanxx to peter & especially to martin for the further clave &
>sovereignty
> > >> elucidations
> > >> & i am glad to learn equatorial guinea is truly exclavic
> > >> nicholsons usage of land area to the contrary notwithstanding
> > >>
> > >> but i must say this throws my whole previous understanding
> > >> or i should say misunderstanding
> > >> of maritime tri sovereign points into the drink
> > >> so it is back to the underwater drawing board for me
> > >> & you can probably expect a considerable retrenchment from my
>earlier guess
> > >> of 160 maritime tri country points worldwide
> > >>
> > >> upon further relection also
> > >> i would just like to retreat an extra inch here by adding the
>following
> > >> hopefully final nuance to clave usage
> > >>
> > >> altho saying flatly
> > >> an enclave of any country
> > >> still seems to me to be an abuse of the word of
> > >> nevertheless it is not really an abuse of the word in to say
> > >> llivia is an exclave of spain or a spanish exclave in france
> > >> while i would still prefer to say within france in such cases
> > >>
> > >> but it would still seem to me to be an abuse of the word in to
>say
> > >> llivia is an exclave in france
> > >> without first identifying it as an exclave of spain or a
>spanish exclave
> > >>
> > >> otherwise i wouldnt want to budge from the positions outlined
>below
> > >>
> > >> m
> > >
> > >I wonder if you can call Eq. Guinea exclavic. Is the island
>completely
> > >detached from the continental
> > >part? I would say not, because in order to go from the one to the
>other,
> > >you go through 1. Eq.
> > >Guinean terr. waters, 2. international waters (thus belonging to
>everyone,
> > >including Eq. Guinea), 3.
> > >Eq. Guinean terr. waters once more. I think if international
>waters are in
> > >the way, there is usually
> > >less reason to call something an enclave.
> > >
> > >Peter S.
> > >
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