please overlook my chasing my own tail here
for it is all in good fun
but i have taken another close look at the seemingly excellent yet
disturbingly unbalanced zoomable maps of the spanish hondarribia & french
hendaye municipalities at the eurocity site brought by peter
in
http://www.egroups.com/message/boundarypoint/1555
& have come to the conclusion that the boundaries of these 2 municipalities
& thus of the adjacent boundaries of the condo must either have been
compiled from disparate & incompatible source data in france & spain
& then left in a ragged condition at the international & condo borders
which seems not very likely
or else the maps must accurately reflect present reality during a strange &
awkward transitional phase by showing the spain & condo boundary fully
modernized per the 1998 adjustments but the france & condo boundary more
nearly unchanged from its 1879 course as depicted in
http://www.egroups.com/message/boundarypoint/1577
it is particularly grotesque to see spanish territory reaching everywhere
all the way to the median of the estuary while french territory hugs the
estuary shoreline all the way back into the river mouth past the first
railroad bridge
grotesque also to see spanish territory meeting the condo along the
shoreline of the bay but french territory not even including any reclaimed
land & seeming therefore to fall back from the shoreline in many places
yes the wet condo appears to have actually gained a beachhead on the french
side
& there has evidently also been some shrinkage of the french maritime
territory since 1879
both situations being still unexplained & suggestive of an intervening treaty
but it all looks very much like it is in the process of belated legal
reconstruction to match & meet up with the spanish changes of 1998
so my latest premature guess is that the frfrspsp2 tripoint actually
remains in its historic position where the thalweg ends
or about midway between the railroad bridges as the zoomable maps show it
which is to say at position 2b described below
but that it is trying to get out to position 2a
namely the midpoint between the matching pierheads
& will succeed there at the next agreement
of course any help to corroborate or bust this hunch would be greatly
appreciated
m
& if someone would also just help me do some comparable digging for the
suspected bede condo tripoints
i would really be in heaven
would that be you wolfgang
>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:57:53 -0500
>To: boundarypoint@egroups.com
>From: michael donner <m@...>
>Subject: summary of frsp condo tripoints
>Cc:
>Bcc:
>X-Attachments:
>
>peter & all
>what a beautiful mess we have discovered here
>while also surely reaching a new high water mark in punctological pursuit
> tho there may still be more to come
> as i have still not yet accessed everything
>but i think we can now reaffirm if not yet absolutely confirm the earlier
>guesses
>
>first
>concerning the outer tripoint where the bay meets the ocean
>the earlier guess is looking right on the money
>with now 2 confirmatory identifications
> point 1879e aka point 1959m as in median
>plus monumentation at the defining terminal points a&d mentioned in both
>treaties
>& even their interval length subject to bisection at 3055 meters
>all which sure seems to foreclose the book at least on this tripoint
> frfrspsp1 tentatively by name
>
>second
>concerning the inner or more nearly coastal tripoint
>i would again like to stand pat on the earlier guess
>namely the midpoint between the matching pier heads
>but this one remains in some doubt
>
>i cant be sure yet but it seems that the land reclamations on the french
>side & the resultant bottlenecking of the estuary were accomplished
>without legal redefinition
>while the land reclamations on the spanish side were alone the subject of
>the legal redefinition of 1998
>
>the eurocity zoomable maps in message 1555 strengthen this impression by
>showing the boundaries of the spanish municipalities of irun & hondarribia
>incorporating the reclamations & extending beyond them all the way to the
>median line of the estuary & as far outward as the pier head median point
>while the boundaries of the french municipality of hendaye are shown
>neither incorporating the reclamations nor even extending into the estuary
>at all
>
>if these disturbing maps are correct
>then it appears that
> despite the legal changes on the spanish side
> & for the lack of any confirmation of them on the french side
>the tripoint may actually not yet have been displaced from its 19th
>century position at the thalweg ending in the river mouth
> exactly as depicted by the eurocity hendaye map
> roughly midway between the railroad bridges
>to a possibly intended relocation between the pier heads
>
>so i would temporarily call the pier head midpoint guess frfrspsp2a
>& the river mouth or interbridge midpoint guess frfrspsp2b
>& will continue to search for data
>
>
>by contrast the somewhat drier tripoints at the downstream & upstream
>extremities of the ile de la conference
> frfrspsp3 & frfrspsp4 respectively by the same provisional notation
>should be a lot easier to put ones finger on
>
>m
>
>
>ps
>a warm welcome to all the new & recent voices & topics
>
>francophones etc are just what we have been needing
>for more intimate conversations
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>