thanx for the replay of this golden oldie mike
the only major thing that has changed in my understanding since i
made that still preliminary punctoscopy of caus is that the internal
federal waters nicholson confirmed in 1979 were eliminated by law in
the 1990s & reverted everywhere to the nearest province or territory
this change however did not affect the maritime tripoints
where federal waters still extend everywhere up to the low tide line
so all the freshwater probabilities bite the dust
while all the salty ones are confirmed
but i will make a more thorough review if you like
since it is probably high time to do so anyway
but it is too beautiful a day here in bristol today to spend very
long in the library
however i just had to stop in to report for any border freaks about
that i just had my muffler & head lamp changed within a stones throw
of tnva
& am posting this message from the bristol tnva bistate library only
2 stones throws from it
perhaps a bp record
the real prize however should be reserved for closest post from a
multipoint
anyway i also serenaded the illustrious state street here from end to
end looking for the muffler shop & greatly enjoyed their massive
state line sign overhead
with its distinctive 10 pointed star centered not directly over the
centerline of the street but in fact slightly on the virginia side i
noticed on my first pass from west to east
this illusion however was later dispelled when i reached the east end
where the centerline jogs back north to align with the center of the
star
or at least i assume this is the true alignment without having
checked a detail map
tho i will inquire at the desk for any confirmation
the only other really striking thing on this line is that the tallest
obelisk in the cemetery above the east end is perfectly on center too
so i will seek a better map & go back to the cemetery too just to see
who this departed border freak may have been
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Kaufman"
<mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> Point 44: akbcyt
> possible pic (?) at:
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/91730697/91731942vAvrvw
> However the caption does say "Flags at international border --
> Alaska/Yukon Territory" omitting BC. Yet still, the flags of the
> Yukon, British Columbia, and Alaska fly there with the two national
> ones. Can not see any bordermarkers. Can anyone who has been here
> confirm or deny this as the tp (area)?
> -Mike K.
> ps - I like Point 11 if it exists - would be even sweeter if it
> existed in a canyon...
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
> > in view of the lingering uncertainties about the status of many
> canadian
> > american tripoints some comprehensive reassessment of them is
long
> overdue
> >
> > & yet such a try will surely also be premature in relation to the
> > additional new information that is imminently expected
> >
> > but ongoing revision is likely to be necessary for a long time to
> come anyway
> > so no harm & hopefully some benefit in the following full
> inspection tour
> > which already contains many new observations & surprises since
> yesterday
> >
> > i confess i have been trying to ignore this topic & have kept my
> head in
> > the sand about it for as long as possible because it has been very
> > inconvenient & i know some parts of it or even all of it is not
> > particularly palatable to several of us but it already seems
like
> the cat
> > is out of the bag with nothing for us to do about it but face up
to
> > whatever we find the truth to be here
> >
> >
> >
> > international trisubdivisional points of the united states &
canada
> > progressing generally westward from atlantic to pacific &
northward
> to arctic
> >
> > confirmed
> > 01 cameus canada maine united states
> > at 3 mile limit in grand manan channel
> > approx 1 mi se of 44n7958 x 66w9428
> > no known visits
> >
> > confirmed
> > 02 camenb
> > or camenbs canada maine new brunswick south
> > at navigational & tidal head of st croix river
> > between calais me & st stephen nb
> > formerly named crmenb
> > in midstream at tip of white water
> > class c visit recorded
> >
> > doubtful
> > 0a camenbn canada maine new brunswick north
> > at n terminus of menb survey line
> > where it meets r bank of st john river at mlw
> > between grand falls nb & hamlin me
> > & very near ne corner of me
> > grand falls just below probably disqualify it
> > by ruling out federal waters
> >
> > probable
> > 03 menbqc maine new brunswick quebec
> > in beau lake of st francis river
> > where nbqc survey line meets caus survey line
> > falls below probably do qualify it
> > by ruling out federal waters
> > class c or b visit recorded
> >
> > excluded
> > 00 canbqc canada new brunswick quebec
> > not intl but possibly a 33rd internal canadian
> > at w terminus of nbqc survey line
> > where it meets l bank of beau lake
> > falls below probably disqualify it tho
> > by ruling out federal waters
> > class c or b visit attributed
> >
> > doubtful
> > 0b cameqc canada maine quebec
> > at ne terminus of meqc survey line
> > where it meets r bank of st francis river
> > falls below probably disqualify it tho
> > by ruling out federal waters
> >
> > confirmed
> > 04 menhqc maine new hampshire quebec
> > dry
> > class a visit recorded
> >
> > confirmed
> > 05 nhqcvt new hampshire quebec vermont
> > in halls stream unnavigable
> > class b visit recorded
> >
> > probable
> > 06 caqcvt canada quebec vermont
> > at w terminus of qcvt survey line
> > where it meets r bank of richelieu river
> > nw of alburg vt
> > navigation extended by the chambly canal
> > class d visit known
> >
> > probable
> > 07 canyvt canada new york vermont
> > where caus survey line meets nyvt boundary end
> > in middle of lake champlain of richelieu river
> > navigation extended by the chambly canal
> > class d visit recorded
> >
> > probable
> > 08 canyqce canada new york quebec east
> > at e terminus of nyqc survey line
> > where it meets l bank of richelieu river
> > ne of rouses point ny
> > navigation extended by the chambly canal
> > class d visit known
> >
> > probable
> > 09 canyqcw canada new york quebec west
> > at w terminus of nyqc survey line
> > where it meets r bank of st lawrence river
> > at akwesasne mohawk capital st regis qc
> > class c visit recorded
> >
> > excluded
> > 00 nyonqc new york ontario quebec
> > once thought to exist in mid st lawrence
> > probably precluded by federal waters
> >
> > excluded
> > 00 canyone canada new york quebec east
> > precluded by federal waters
> >
> > probable
> > 10 canyonn canada new york ontario north
> > at r bank of mouth of niagara river
> > unnavigable from falls to mouth
> > unexpected location
> > class d visit known
> >
> > uncertain
> > 11 canyons canada new york ontario south
> > at r bank of head of niagara river
> > or its end of navigation above falls
> > unexpected & uncertain location
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 12 canypa canada new york pennsylvania
> > in east central lake erie
> > formerly construed as nyonpa
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 13 caohpa canada ohio pennsylvania
> > near middle of lake erie
> > formerly construed as ohonpa
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 14 camioh canada michigan ohio
> > in western lake erie
> > formerly construed as miohon
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 15 camimn canada michigan minnesota
> > in western lake superior
> > formerly construed as mimnon
> > no known visits
> >
> > excluded
> > 00 mbmnon manitoba minnesota ontario
> > once thought to exist at mnn
> > very probably precluded by federal waters
> > & effectively replaced by 16 cambmne
> >
> > excluded
> > but
> > definite
> > 00 cambon canada manitoba ontario
> > at head of navigation in northwest inlet creek
> > very probable 33rd or 34th internal canadian tripoint
> >
> > probable
> > 16 cambmne canada manitoba minnesota east
> > at n terminus of meridional mbmn survey line
> > where it meets r bank of northwest inlet creek
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 17 cambmnw canada manitoba minnesota west
> > at w terminus of parallel mbmn survey line
> > where it meets r bank of red river
> > presuming navigability
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 18 camnnd canada minnesota north dakota
> > where mnnd boundary meets caus boundary
> > presuming navigability
> > formerly construed mbmnnd
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 19 cambnd canada manitoba north dakota
> > at e terminus of mbnd survey line
> > where it meets l bank of red river
> > presuming navigability
> > no known visits
> >
> > confirmed
> > 20 mbndsk manitoba north dakota saskatchewan
> > dry
> > probably visited & photographed
> >
> > confirmed
> > 21 mtndsk montana north dakota saskatchewan
> > dry
> > probably visited & photographed
> >
> > confirmed
> > 22 abmtsk alberta montana saskatchewan
> > dry
> > probably visited & photographed
> >
> > confirmed
> > 23 abbcmt alberta british columbia montana
> > dry & remote
> > possibly visited & photographed
> >
> > confirmed
> > 24 bcidmt british columbia idaho montana
> > dry
> > probably visited & photographed
> >
> > confirmed
> > 25 bcidwa british columbia idaho washington
> > dry
> > probably visited & photographed
> >
> > doubtful
> > 00 bccawae british columbia canada washington east &
> > 00 bccawaw west
> > 00 &or any similar possibilities
> > if a river like the columbia is navigable at caus
> >
> > confirmed
> > 26 bccawae british columbia canada washington east
> > at easternmost coastal transit of bcwa survey line
> > between white rock bc & blaine wa
> > no known recorded visits
> >
> > probable
> > 27 causwa1 canada united states washington easternmost
> > at 3 mile limit west of blaine wa
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 28 causwa2 canada united states washington second
> > at 3 mile limit east of point roberts
> > no known visits
> >
> > confirmed
> > 29 bccawam british columbia canada washington middle
> > at median coastal transit of bcwa survey line
> > at east side of point roberts
> > no known recorded visits
> >
> > confirmed
> > 30 bccawaw british columbia canada washington west
> > at westernmost coastal transit of bcwa survey line
> > at west side of point roberts
> > no known recorded visits
> >
> > probable
> > 31 causwa3 canada united states washington third
> > at 3 mile limit west of point roberts
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 32 causwa4 canada united states washington fourth
> > at 3 mile limit nw of patos island
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 33 causwa5 canada united states washington fifth
> > at 3 mile limit nw of waldron island
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 34 causwa6 canada united states washington sixth
> > at 3 mile limit ne of stuart island
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 35 causwa7 canada united states washington seventh
> > at 3 mile limit sw of pike pt on san juan island
> > no known visits
> >
> > disputed
> > 36 akcaus1 alaska canada united states first
> > at 3 mile limit sw of cape muzon on dali island
> > only if canadian claim is sustained
> >
> > disputed
> > 37 akcaus2 alaska canada united states second
> > at 3 mile limit east of cape muzon on dali island
> > only if canadian claim is sustained
> >
> > disputed
> > 38 akcaus3 alaska canada united states third
> > at 3 mile limit sw of cape chacon on prince of wales
> island
> > only if canadian claim is sustained
> >
> > disputed
> > 39 akcaus4 alaska canada united states fourth
> > at 3 mile limit se of cape chacon on prince of wales
> island
> > only if canadian claim is sustained
> >
> > disputed
> > but
> > probable
> > 40 akcaus5 alaska canada united states fifth
> > at 3 mile limit sw of the lord islands
> > exact position depending on which claim is sustained
> > note
> > to complicate things even further in this vicinity
> > there are 2 water areas claimed neither by canada nor the united
> states
> > yet situated partly or entirely within 3nm of alaska
> > so additional strange tripoints could result
> >
> > disputed &
> > unlikely
> > 00 akcaus6 alaska canada united states sixth
> > 00 akcaus7 seventh
> > at 3 mile limit se of lord islands
> > only if american claim is sustained & 3nm limit is
> reached
> > both of which contingencies are in doubt
> >
> > disputed
> > 00 akcaus8 alaska canada united states eighth
> > at 3 mile limit sw of garnet pt on kanagunut island
> > only if american claim is sustained
> >
> > disputed
> > 00 akcaus9 alaska canada united states ninth
> > at 3 mile limit se of garnet pt on kanagunut island
> > only if american claim is sustained
> >
> > note
> > while 40akcaus5 above seems inevitable whatever the outcome
> > & similarly 46akcaus10 below
> > regarding the other 8 numbered akcaus tripoints above
> > generally either akcaus1&2&3&4 or akcaus6&7&8&9 will be sustained
> > but of these perhaps only akcaus8&9 will ultimately survive
> > producing a possible reduction of 2 points in the total count
> >
> >
> > probable
> > 41 akbccas alaska british columbia canada south
> > near head of portland canal
> > between hyder ak & stewart bc
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 42 akbccam alaska british columbia canada middle
> > at left side of tarr inlet west of haines ak
> > where glacier has receded admitting new coastal
waters
> > no known visits
> >
> > probable
> > 43 akbccan alaska british columbia canada north
> > at right side of tarr inlet west of haines ak
> > where glacier has receded admitting new coastal
waters
> > no known visits
> >
> > confirmed
> > 44 akbcyt alaska british columbia yukon territory
> > at w terminus of bcyt survey line
> > where it meets the caus boundary
> > dry point on glacier
> > no known visits
> >
> > doubtful
> > 00 akcayts alaska canada yukon territory south &
> > 00 akcaytn north
> > 00 &or any similar possibilities
> > if a river like the yukon is navigable at caus
> >
> > confirmed
> > 45 akcayt alaska canada yukon territory
> > at n terminus of akyt survey line
> > where it meets beaufort sea
> > just east of gordon ak
> > no known visits
> >
> > confirmed
> > 46 akcaus10 alaska canada united states ninth
> > at 3 mile limit north or nne of gordon ak
> > depending on which claim is sustained
> > no known visits
> >
> >
> > thus 46 now seems the most probable caus line total
> > but it is still far from certain
> > with probably 10 to 14 visits already accomplished
> >
> >
> > at the same time 12 remains the most probable total of mexican
> american
> > international trisubdivisional points
> > comprising the 8 literal tristate points normally cited
> > plus 2 mexican federal beach points
> > & 2 american federal waters points
> >
> >
> > in addition this exercise has resulted in the unexpected
discovery
> of 1 or
> > 2 new domestic canadian tripoints associated with & very near the
> caus
> > boundary
> > a fact which may bring the total of this set up to 33 or 34
> >
> >
> > thus updated nafta supertotals are
> > ca 34 internal
> > caus 46 international
> > us 83 internal
> > mxus 12 international
> > mx internal
> > maybe next but what a challenge that will be