Subject: Re: Somewhat accurate Madha?<br/>
Date: Nov 28, 2002 @ 22:38<br/>
Author: acroorca2002 (&quot;acroorca2002&quot; &lt;orc@...&gt;)<br/>
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<div id="ygrps-yiv-1676533596">--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., Kevin Meynell &lt;kevin@m...&gt; wrote:<br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; <br/>
&gt; &gt;but as all of us aboriginal multipointers here realized long <br/>
 </span></blockquote>ago even with <br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; &gt;our de jure establishment of the real bp topic we could never <br/>
 </span></blockquote>de facto <br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; &gt;keep our precious haven safe from digressors<br/>
&gt; <br/>
&gt; I&#39;m a relative newbie, so I&#39;m not sure I really have any right to <br/>
 </span></blockquote>express <br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; an opinion. <br/>
<br/>
 </span></blockquote>whattt<br/>
<br/>
as i went on to say<br/>
thankfully our borders are open <br/>
etc<br/>
<br/>
so of course you & everyone else are right to be here in full <br/>
strength<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
also <br/>
whatever one may think about the way the usa excised <br/>
guantanamo from cuba in 1903 & 1934 as the price for nominal <br/>
cuban independence & final territorial integrity respectively<br/>
much the same as the uk did to cyprus all at once in 1960<br/>
these are considered de jure rather than de facto arrangements<br/>
just like all other postcolonial hangovers<br/>
since the right of might evidently still does trump the rule of law<br/>
& it seems the rule of law kicks in only when it suits the mighty<br/>
<br/>
the usa even gave itself 3nm of territorial waters off guantanamo<br/>
unlike the uk for the sov bases on cyprus <br/>
 <br/>
but both arrangements are strictly limited to military stations<br/>
so for example the detention camps that have grown up on both <br/>
islands are de facto rather than de jure<br/>
<br/>
however i believe we have long since come to the conclusion <br/>
that it is a hopeless & endless mess trying to discern & parse all <br/>
the possible variations & gradations of sovereignty<br/>
<br/>
& i think the bigger question is how much longer the original <br/>
fiction & illusion of the sovereignty & divine right of kings <br/>
upon which all our ideas of national sovereignty & boundaries <br/>
are based <br/>
can be maintained by nation states in general<br/>
<br/>
in reality we are all equally sovereign & indeed equally divine<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
However, whilst I find the multipointing aspect extremely <br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; interesting, I&#39;m equally interested in general border issues. <br/>
&gt; Unfortunately, I have yet to find another forum where I can <br/>
 </span></blockquote>indulge in this <br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; rather specialised interest, nor one where people are so <br/>
 </span></blockquote>informed about <br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; international boundaries, obscure enclaves, and other <br/>
 </span></blockquote>geographical curiosities.<br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; <br/>
&gt; Regards,<br/>
&gt; <br/>
&gt; Kevin Meynell<br/>
<br/>
 </span></blockquote>but i would say this is your & our good fortune</div>