nice thread you guys
indeed imo our subtlest & finest happy hour to date

m

my picks of the highlights
luckily there are no current examples of this
its a part of the terminology that needs work
any volunteers
according to me
notable enclave experts

>From: "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@...>
>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: What is an enclave
>Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:43:57 +1100
>
>This is where the definitions start to get tricky.
>Taking France and Avignon/Orange, aking to Davids example of S.Afr and a
>bisected Lesotho:
>
>Avignon and Orange are both enclaved in France. France has an enclave, a
>hole, in its territorial fabric.
>The two enclaved states form a single enclave within france.
>Neither is an exclave, as they are both integral sovereign units.
>
>but each suffers the same as any enclave. Although technically having two
>neighbours, neither can get to the coast or outer boundary of France
>without
>the same hassle as a standard enclave.
>
>Luckily there are no current examples of this.
>
>Howver, Dahagram-Angarpota, the largest Bangladesh enclavei n India was
>once
>bisected, half belonging to each of two British districts. Was it one
>enclave or two?
>Were they two exclave or one?
>
>It's a halfway case. I call it one enclave (in cooch Behar), which is made
>up of an exclave of each of the British districts. But it is not 2
>exclaves.
>
>Perhaps we need to allow for fractional enclaves, not just integral
>numbers?
>
>As there are so few cases of this split personality enclavity, treat each
>case on its own merits. Avignon and Orange werre independent within
>Independent France.
>
>Dahagram and Angarpota were two district fragments oinside a Princely
>state.
>
>Culver city is a municipality within LA city, but Baldwein Hills is part of
>LA county, a higher level of government than either city in most senses.
>
>It's a part of the terminology that needs work.
>
>Any volunteers?
>
>
>
> >From: "m donner" <maxivan82@...>
> >Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: What is an enclave
> >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:34:04 +0000
> >
> >thanxx david for this subtle topological delicacy
> >as well as for consistently calling our old & super brendon brandon
> > yes i will eat your nits too
> >for you may well have struck here upon a rich recipe for distinguishing
>our
> >old from our new eponyms as we continue to multiproliferate
> >
> >& to answer your rhetorical question
> >yes once again you are absolutely right
> >neither fragment of the prospectively former lesotho would be an enclave
>in
> >anything
> >except if it had disintegrated into a bagel shape
> >or possibly also into a bunch of baarle or bengal crumbs
> >for we know that is always a possibility too
> >
> >& new peter is also absolutely right here below both about the eternality
> >of
> >the discussion & about the respectability of all the opinions
> >
> >& may i say peter that you are not only our new peter for some time but
>are
> >now looking like a newer & finer peter yet again
> >
> >
> >my own opinion is
> >the more novelty the better
> >& it is well worth the regular review both for our own recapitulations &
> >for
> >the benefit of new members
> >
> >but please remember above all
> >our clavers are only embedded here
> > & we wouldnt have it any other way
> > nor would they
> >
> >even our bounders are but a lunatic fringe
> > yet an essential nay quintessential necessity
> > for all us other true boundary point believers
> >
> >& peter if you really dont like booze & cant stop it
> >i would be afraid
> >but i know you are only teasing us
> >exquisitely as usual
> >
> >& w h a t
> >did you just say you stood corrected on
> >
> >m
> >
> >
> > >From: David Mark <dmark@...>
> > >Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: What is an enclave
> > >Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:52:00 -0500 (EST)
> > >
> > >I was surprised by an apparent inconsistency of two of Brandon's recent
> > >opinions about enclaves. He stated that to be an enclave a fragment of
> > >territory must be surrounded by 'foreign' territory, but earlier
>claimed
> > >that Culver City was an enclave. Since Culver City shares boundaries
>with
> > >two other territories, I thought he was being inconsistent. But if
> > >"surrounded" is taken to NOT mean "immediately surrounded" then Culver
> > >City could still meet the definition of an enclave. But if we take
> >enclave
> > >to require "immediately surrounded by a single foreign territory", then
> > >Culver City would not be an enclave. To use a more familiar
>international
> > >example-- is Lesotho split into two countries, would they both still be
> > >enclaves within South Africa, or would neither be an enclave since now
> > >each has two neighboring countries?
> > >
> > >David
> > >
> > >On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Peter Smaardijk wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's a bit of an eternal discussion here. I understand Brendans
> > > > arguments completely, and respect them, but I still differ. The
> > > > exclave is landlocked for sure, but acc. to my opinion, Nakhichevan
> > > > is an exclave to Azerbaijan, because it is detached from the
>homeland
> > > > by foreign territory. Whose territory is irrelevant here.
> > > >
> > > > According to me!
> > > >
> > > > Peter S.
> > > >
> > > > PS: Yes, I agree that the words enclave and exclave are used very
> > > > loosely, and too loosely, by "the media". But then again, who is
> > > > that? Isn't it just that the meaning of the words are gradually
> > > > shifting? (A tip (money for the waiter) is called "pourboire" in
> > > > French, and "Trinkgeld" in German. But I wonder whether all waiters
> > > > will spend their tips exclusively on booze.;-)) Me too, I don't like
> > > > it. But I can't stop it, I'm afraid.
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Brendan Whyte wrote:
> > > > > > > An exclave is a special type of fragment, one that is
>surrounded
> > > > > > > by one other unit. It must be landlocked too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Well, that definition is not universally accepted:
> > > > > >the American Heritage Dictionary illustrates "exclave" with
> > > > Cabinda.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The OED has a proper [ ;-) ] definition for both enclave and
> > > > exclave.
> > > > >
> > > > > That plus notable exclave experts confirm 'my' definition above.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is one problem that 'enclave' and 'excalve' are used far too
> > > > liberally
> > > > > and slapdashically by the much of the media.
> > > > >
> > > > > Websters: "a small part of a country lying within the territory of
> > > > another
> > > > > country'.
> > > > > Cabinda does NOT lie 'within' another country!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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