Your right, my 1989 edition of sheet 113 at 1:100 000 does label all the
German roads as N, not B. the smallest enclave won't show at this scale.
On the 1:50 000 sheet "Eupen 35-43", the enclaves all show and the boundary
is correct.
I think the 100k maps are a touch too small scale for the detail required at
the border.
BW
>From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>
>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Roetgen/Monschau enclaves
>Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 06:07:55 -0000
>
>The B258 is explicitely labelled N258 within Belgium on a Belgian
>1:100000 topo map. Hence my mistake.
>
>These 1:100000 maps are extremely sloppy, to my experience,
>especially regarding the boundary. This is not only a matter of
>scale. The smallest enclave is not only not shown (which can be a
>matter of scale), but also is the normal boundary depicted absolutely
>wrong. The same goes for the border along Bundesstrasse 258 and the
>road to Lammersdorf.
>
>Peter S.
>
>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...> wrote:
> > Belgian topo 1:10 000 43/8 Nord uses the German 1:25000 info in
>black and
> > white for the German parts of the map and very detailed colour
>Belgian
> > mapping for the Belgian parts. The B258 is not labelled within
>Belgium.
> >
> > BW
> >
> >
> > >From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@y...>
> > >Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@y...
> > >To: BoundaryPoint@y...
> > >Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Roetgen/Monschau enclaves
> > >Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:48:19 -0000
> > >
> > >A good lesson for me not to believe everything on maps (and
> > >subsequently post something here): the road is Bundesstrasse 258.
>On
> > >the Belgian topo maps I have, all German Bundesstrassen, that
>should
> > >have the letter B, get the letter N (like in Belgium) instead.
>Which
> > >is absolutely wrong.
> > >
> > >(N-numbers in the two hundreds in Belgium are found in Brussels and
> > >both Belgian provinces of Brabant).
> > >
> > >So it is even more like the Dutch N274 than I thought.
> > >
> > >Peter S.
> > >
> > >--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@y...>
>wrote:
> > > > Btw: The road is the Bundesstrasse 258, meaning it is
>maintained by
> > > > Federal services (L means Landstrasse, K means Kreisstrasse,
> > >meaning
> > > > they are under Fed. Land and District services, respectively).
>This
> > > > road has been named N (=Nationalstrasse) 258 in Belgium, without
> > > > changing the number. So B258 in de, and N258 in be. As you say,
>the
> > > > road is maintained by Germany. A situation not unlike Dutch road
> > >N274
> > > > in Germany. I don't know whether this road also has a German
> > > > designation.
> > > >
> > > > Peter S.
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...> wrote:
> > > > > The road junction from Roetgen (west) Monschau (south) and
> > > > > Lammersdorf(east).
> > > > > The blank southern area is Belgium proper, the north with the
> > > > details, the
> > > > > larger of the two roegten enclaves.
> > > > > The roads west and eats are German to their edges, then
>Belgium
> > > > kicks in.
> > > > > The traffic island is on top of a hill, so the railway,
>Belgian,
> > > > winds
> > > > > around the hill to the far north, via Lammersdorf then south
>to
> > > > Monschau.
> > > > >
> > > > > according to the US Geographers "International Boundary Study
> > >No7,
> > > > June 30
> > > > > 1961 Belgium-Germany Boundary":
> > > > > "Before 1949 the three roads had been in Germany while the
> > > > territory on all
> > > > > sides was under Belgian administration. In 1949 the roads were
> > > > provisionally
> > > > > transferred to Belgium. The 1958 solution saw the cession of
> > > > Belgian
> > > > > territory north of the roads and the return of the two east
>west
> > > > segments to
> > > > > Germany. In turn Germany ceded the north south stretch of
>highway
> > > > to
> > > > > Belgium."
> > > > > ...
> > > > > "Since Article 7 of the Bonnb Convention on Relations provides
> > >that
> > > > the
> > > > > final determination of the boundaries of Germany must await a
> > >peace
> > > > > settlement of the whole of Germany, these frontier
>arrangements
> > >are
> > > > > necessarily provisional."
> > > > >
> > > > > Treaties covering the tripoint to enclaves area are:
> > > > >
> > > > > Treaty of Vienna 9 June 1815. In effect 1816-1919 and 1940-45.
> > > > Basic line of
> > > > > boundary.
> > > > >
> > > > > Boundary Treaty, Prussia and Netherlands, 26 June 1816.
>Detailed
> > > > > delimitation of Congress of Vienna treaty boundary.
> > > > >
> > > > > Treaty of London, 19 April 1839. Belgian independence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Treaty of Versailles, 28 June 1919.Articles 31-35 detached
> > >Moresnet
> > > > and
> > > > > eupen-Malmedy fomr Germany.
> > > > >
> > > > > Report of the Belgian-German Boundary Demarcation Commission,
> > > > Aachen 6 Nov
> > > > > 1922. Very detailed technical report was published in Moniteur
> > > > Belge, the
> > > > > Belgian govt gazette, 7 March 1925 as an annex to the law
> > > > incorporating the
> > > > > lands into the Belgian provincial structure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Treaty between Be and De, Aachen 10 May 1935. Two small
>parcels
> > >of
> > > > land,
> > > > > 1.7sq km ceded by Belgium allowing extension of Aachen freight
> > > > yards.
> > > > >
> > > > > Report of the Western German Frontier Demarcation Commission -
> > > > Southern
> > > > > Group- Belgian-German Frontier, Arlon (Belgium)9 Sept 1949
> > > > > 7 parcels of German land provisionally placed under Belgian
> > > > administration.
> > > > > 20sq km, 500 inhabitants.
> > > > >
> > > > > Treaty between the FRG and the Kingdom of Belgium concerning
> > > > rectification
> > > > > of the German-Belgian boundary and other questions, Brussels,
>24
> > > > Sept 1956.
> > > > > While the 1949 changes had reduced/eliminated some problems of
> > > > border admin,
> > > > > customs control, communications and stream polluting, they had
> > > > created
> > > > > others. This treaty sought a compromise.
> > > > >
> > > > > BW
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________________
>_
> > > > ___
> > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > > > http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
>______________________________________________________________________
>___
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com