Subject: Re: Continent marker
Date: May 15, 2001 @ 22:06
Author: Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
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--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
> i like to think the 2 great canals form the 2 great divides of the
4 great
> continents
> not that europe & australia & antarctica are not great mind you
> but i have also seen the colombia panama & the egypt israel
boundaries
> represented as the true lines also
>
> still the canals are so nice & neat
> & they do represent physical discontinuities
> which seems to be the whole point
>
> & no harm in this either
> since all 3 of the great intercontinental divides are thus actually
human
> artworks
>
> m
>
>
> >
> >The Asia-Europe boundary markers come as a huge surprise to me.
> >
> >I have always thought that the Ural mountain boundary was just a
broad
> >undefined aproximate line, and now there are markers!
> >
> >Where is the Asia-Africa boundary line then? and N - S America?
> >
> >Jesper
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "michael donner" <m@...>
> >To: <BoundaryPoint@y...>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:30 PM
> >Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Contient marker
> >
> >
> >gorgeous stuff peter
> >
> >this is our finest happy hour
> >
> >wonderful to see how a presumably all natural boundary still had
to be
> >diligently searched out & agreed upon
> >& how an initially vague consensus gradually grew into official
reality
> >
> > yet with seemingly nothing of consequence ever really dependent
on it
> >
> >
> >i would suggest that this round score of obelisks redeem all
obeliskoids
> >everywhere & naturally comprise a premium search category
> >
> >
> >also the fact that parts of the intercontinental boundary dont
coincide
> >with any administrative boundaries only emphasizes its rarefaction
& purity
> >
> >so it is truly a monumental line
> >& especially so wherever it is not a boundary
> >
> >m
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Another fine Europe-Asia boundary marker. Nice one.
> >>
> >>This boundary is intriguing: it is a continent boundary, but there
> >>are sections of it that don't coincide with any administrative
> >>boundary. This is why even the Russians don't always know for sure
> >>where that boundary is.
> >>
> >>I found two Russian articles on the internet, which I have
translated
> >>for you. Do visit the second article yourself, though: it has nice
> >>illustrations.
> >>
> >>The first one:
> >>
> >>The Sibirka - a boundary stream
> >>
> >>Yuriy Dunayev
> >>
> >>Ten kilometres west of Nizhneye Selo, on the road to
Staroutkinsk, we
> >>cross a bridge over the little river that bears the name Sibirka.
It
> >>starts on the eastern slope of the Kirgishan heights and after 16
> >>kilometres pours its waters into the Chusovaya from the left.
> >>The well-known scholar of Siberian history P.A. Slovtsov
considered
> >>this little river the boundary of ancient Siberia. Before the Ural
> >>was visited by Alexander Humboldt and Gustav Rose, however, in the
> >>world of science the name Ural was given to a less significant
> >>height, which is situated considerably more to the west - between
the
> >>coach stations Kirgishanskaya and Grobovskaya, and which
constitutes
> >>the water divide between some tributaries of the Chusovaya and the
> >>Ufa.
> >>Peter the Greats ambassador to China, Izbrant Ides, considered,
for
> >>example, the right bank of the Chusovaya, where the Stroganov
> >>settlements ended, at the place the Mezhevaya Utka flows into the
> >>Chusovaya, as the beginning of Asia. Academician I.G. Gmelin, who
is
> >>known for his many years of travel through Siberia with S. Müller,
> >>travelled from Kungur to Yekaterinburg almost exactly along the
> >>present Moscow-Siberia trail, and considered the Ural mountain
range
> >>to be one of the ridges that runs parallel to the Ural, and to
which
> >>belongs Klenovaya mountain, at the foot of which at that time the
> >>boundary post was situated.
> >>Doctor A. Erman from Berlin, who travelled across the Ural in 1828
> >>together with the Norwegian scientist professor Heistens and
> >>lieutenant Douai, had his attention drawn by his coachmen to
> >>Kirgishan mountain, who said that that's where the boundary
between
> >>Russia and Siberia is. That's why it is not surprising that P.A.
> >>Slovtsov too considered the little river Sibirka to be the
boundary
> >>river. He wasn't mistaken, either.
> >>A testimony of the fact that the boundary used to run along this
> >>little river is the find by the pupils of Staroutkinsk school no.
13
> >>of an ancient boundary stone on one of the banks of the Sibirka.
This
> >>stone divided, according to its inscription, Muscovy and the
Sibirian
> >>khanate. That is why the stream Sibirka, which flows into the
> >>Chusovaya at a spot at 57°09' N. lat., is the most ancient
boundary
> >>of Russia and Siberia, and this is why it got its name, too.
> >>By the way, A. Dmitriev in "Permskaya starina" mentions, that in
1681
> >>the village Sibirka was situated on the banks of the river - and
> >>consisted of only one farm.
> >>
> >>Source: <<http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-
06.html>
> >>http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-06.html>
> >><http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-06.html>
> >>http://uralstalker.ekaterinburg.com:8081/2000/07/0007-06.html
> >>
> >>The second one (yes, Russians seem to call every boundary marker
an
> >>obelisk!):
> >>
> >>Boundary guard in the Ural
> >>
> >>V. Terentyev
> >>
> >>More than three thousand kilometres the Ural mountains stretch
from
> >>north to south. This mountainous boundary in the centre of Russia
is
> >>firmly established and is maintained to this day. This is a big
merit
> >>of the great statesman and explorer of the Ural, Vasiliy Nikitich
> >>Tatishchev. He is the first Russian that called these mountains
Ural.
> >>
> >>Tatishchev was also the man that came to the conclusion the Ural
> >>mountains were on the border of two parts of the world: Europe and
> >>Asia. This boundary, drawn by V.N. Tatishchev two and a half
> >>centuries ago, in spite of its conditional nature, still holds its
> >>historical meaning, is known the world over and is fixed by many
> >>obelisks with the inscription "Europe-Asia".
> >>
> >>The placing of these started in the Ural mountains already in the
> >>last century and is still being continued. The boundary markers
were
> >>put up along the entire Ural range. They continue to attract
> >>tourists, because every one of them is different and has its own
> >>look. At present there are approximately twenty obelisks. A
precise
> >>figure cannot be given, because no one has ever counted them, and
> >>news of them mostly comes from scholars of local history and
tourists.
> >>
> >>In the central Ural area, in the Sverdlovsk province and around
> >>Nizhniy Tagil, there are many interesting and originally
constructed
> >>border obelisks. At the occasion of the visit to our region of the
> >>successor to the throne, the future Russian emperor Alexander II
in
> >>1837, the first marker "Europe-Asia" was placed in the Ural
> >>mountains - a marble pyramid with the coat-of-arms of the czar.
After
> >>the October revolution it was destroyed, being a symbol of czarist
> >>power. On this spot in 1926 a new obelisk was erected. It stands
on
> >>the Siberian trail some forty kilometres from Yekaterinburg, in
the
> >>Pervouralsk rayon.
> >>
> >>Another monument from the last century, built in 1868 by order
and at
> >>the expense of the gold industrialists of the Northern Ural, can
> >>still be seen today. It stands at the village Kedrovka on the road
> >>>from Kushva to Serebryanka. It is made of cast iron, and the form
> >>resembles a bell tower. The central part is crowned by a red,
raised
> >>cupola, and on the corners are round columns, that are also
crowned
> >>by small cupolas. They used to be gilded, and on the back side the
> >>czarist coat-of-arms shined. In the civil war the obelisk was
> >>destroyed. But tourists of the Nizhnyaya Salda factory have
recently
> >>restored it.
> >>
> >>The address of another boundary marker is probably known to many:
the
> >>mountain pass crossing the Vysokie Gory ridge near the village of
> >>Uralets on the road Nizhniy Tagil-Visim. It is a square column
with a
> >>height of six metres. On top of it is a model of the earth globe,
> >>around which along a steel orbit turn a satellite and the space
> >>ship "Vostok".
> >>
> >>>From Nizhniy Tagil another marker can be reached: at the 25th
> >>kilometre of the Serebryanskiy trail you are met by a stele,
placed
> >>there in honour of the 50th anniversary of October.
> >>
> >>Interesting are the geographical location and the history of the
> >>northernmost of all boundary markers "Europe-Asia". It stands at
the
> >>coast of the Yugorskiy Shar strait. Here the Ural range "dives"
into
> >>the waters of the Arctic Ocean. The marker was placed here in
1973 by
> >>the members of an expedition on the ship "Zamora", sailing from
> >>Archangel to Dickson. This is a modest and simple obelisk. They
got a
> >>rusty anchor somewhere, attached a chain to it, and to a metal
pipe a
> >>sign was attached, with the inscription "Europe-Asia" on it.
> >>
> >>Further, along the whole Ural range, obelisks form a chain, going
> >>>from north to south right to the city of Orenburg.
> >>
> >>Apart from the official "registered" obelisks there are in the
Ural
> >>mountains a whole range of do-it-yourself ones, put up by
tourists,
> >>school children, forest workers. For example, in the vicinity of
> >>Tagil near the village of Yelizavetinskoye on the old winter trail
> >>Tagil-Visim woodcutters have put up their sign: they planted a
pine
> >>pole of about four metres in the ground, and on a surface made
flat
> >>at the top they cut out the words "Europe-Asia". And in this way
the
> >>boundary signs are put up.
> >>
> >>On the pictures: this is how the boundary markers look like in the
> >>Central Ural mountains; the northernmost obelisk on the bank of
the
> >>Arctic Ocean.
> >>
> >>Source: <<http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm>
> >>http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm>
> >><http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm>
http://history.ntagil.ru/5_3_11.htm
> >>
> >>Peter S.
> >>
> >>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., granthutchison@c... wrote:
> >>> > <<http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?
http%>
> >>>http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?http%
>
> >>><http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?
http%>
> >>>http://www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/index.html?http%
> >>> 3A//www.trailblazer-guides.com/books/transsib/reading.html
> >>>
> >>> Ah, the only border monument mentioned in this group that I've
> >>> actually visited. I hung out of the space between two carriages
on
> >>> the Trans-Siberian railway, camera at the ready, counting the km
> >>> markers towards 1777. Then the thing shot past at 60mph, and I
hit
> >>> the shutter button more by reflex than anything else. The
picture
> >>> turned out perfectly composed, as if I'd stood beside the line
and
> >>> taken all the time in the world to line up and shoot!
> >>> The railway side (the only side I saw) has "<-Europe" and "Asia-
>"
> >>in
> >>> Cyrillic, as I recall. I'll dig out the slide and project it to
> >>make
> >>> sure.
> >>>
> >>> Grant
> >>
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