Subject: glenelg river etc
Date: May 04, 2001 @ 15:04
Author: michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
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>Yes, what i meant was it was easier for the Fly to be on the border, and so
>the whole of the river was then accessible for British subjects to enter and
>follow it up stream to central British Papua, than to have a large bend
>entirely in the dutch part, when navigation on the river was of no real use
>to the Dutch as the mouth and the upper reaches were in British terrotiry.
>
>There is a similar shaped river on the Vic/SA boundary in Australia, the
>Glenelg, whose mourtth is at Nelson in Vic and which bends clockwise through
>into SA then back into Vic. But the state boundary follows the meridian, so
>the western part of the bend is in SA, meaning rules on the river for
>houseboats and fishing boats, the main traffic, change. The land along the
>inside of the bend is south Australian too, whereas the land east of the
>meridian is Victorian and a naitonal park. The SA land is a state firest (so
>can be logged) but that would require access through the naitonal park,
>which would be difficult. So it remains unlogged, but not protected as a
>national park yet.
>Two access points to the river for boats are in SA.
>
>
>>From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>
>>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Fly river
>>Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 06:45:48 -0000
>>
>>Thanks a lot, Brendan! Not only have you answered the question why
>>the Fly became a boundary (headhunters have always been a problem in
>>this area, and fugitives from Upper Digoel had more to fear from them
>>than from the Dutch colonial police), but the juggling of the
>>straight boundaries themselves is much more than you expect there is
>>to an average straight line.
>>
>>You say that it was more convenient that the Fly be under UK
>>administration. But the treaty specifies the thalweg, and art. V of
>>the treaty makes it free for both Dutch and British subjects to
>>travel the Fly by boat. So did you mean that, or did the regime on
>>the border-Fly change since the treaty?
>>
>>Indeed, changes in the course of the Fly could produce a problem. And
>>changes are very possible, since the debit of the river is huge. And
>>you don't want any flies in your ice cream...
>>
>>Peter S.
>>
>>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...> wrote:
>> > Sorry, "Frontiers of Asian and southeast Asia." which covers
>>Afghanistan
>> > through to Indonesia-Australian and PNg-Austrlaian boundaries.
>> > "Map of Mainland Asia by Treaty" was the more formal predecessor to
>>this
>> > title, contianing extracts of relevant treaties, and only covers
>>Afghanistan
>> > through North Korea and Malaysia.
>> >
>> >
>> > precis of
>> > Prescott, Collier and Prescott,
>> > Melb Uni Press, 1977
>> > "Frontiers of Asia and SE Asia"
>> > section 41, p84 with map p85:
>> >
>> > A territory from 141d on south coast to Cape Saprop Maneh [Tanjung
>>Duar]
>> > 140d47'East unilaterally declared as border by Dutch in 1848 in a
>>sectret
>> > declaration to UK, which was made public in 1865. In 1875 boundary
>>described
>> > as straight line from Tajung Duar on North coast to intersection of
>>141deg
>> > with south coast (very similar to 1848).
>> > 1884 UK and Germany divided PNG and drew a serries of straight
>>lines to
>> > intersection of 141E and 5S, marking the tript.
>> > 1893 raids of headhunters forced UK and Neth to precisely locate
>>border.
>> > Bensbach river mouth on south coast chosen as starting point,
>>determined to
>> > be 141d 01'47.9".
>> > UK thus conceded a strip 3km wide to Dutch,from south coast to the
>>DeNeUk
>> > tripoint. To offset this, UK asked for the Fly river bend, with 2
>>reasons:
>> > bend occupied by headhunters with whom a river border was easier to
>>deal,
>> > and goldseekers would use the Fly for access to interior, so more
>>convenient
>> > if it was entirely within UK administration. Dutch agreed in 1895.
>> > Dutch then looked to Germany to settle their border, but Germany in
>>no
>> > hurry, its surveyors all in Africa. Then WW1. Australia became
>>successor to
>> > Germany in New Guinea, as it had succeeded the UK in 1905 in Papua.
>> > Australian survey in 1928 placed a marker on northern coast near
>>Wutong,
>> > 141d 0'13.5", recording that Dutch border was 400m west. A joint
>>survey in
>> > 1933 found the Dutch and Australians differed by 398m over where
>>they
>> > calculated 141d to be. They decided to split the difference , but
>>this point
>> > was unsuitable for a marker, so it was placed 168m from the Dutch
>> > determination and 230m from the Australian, rather than 199m from
>>each, in
>> > the middle of the 398m gap.
>> > Proposals to mark intersection with Fly river delayed by WW2.
>> > 1960, Australia and Dutch agreed great circle through the marker on
>>the
>> > north coast to the northern intersection of 141d and Fly river to
>>be
>> > boundary. On the south side, the meridian passing through mouth of
>>Bensbach
>> > river until the southern intersection with Fly river. This
>>southern
>> > meridian determined to be 141d01'07" in 1958. In 1962 monuments
>>erected on
>> > Fly at each location. Therefore diagonal line in north and due N-S
>>line in
>> > south.
>> > Work repeated when Indonesia colonised West Irian. Agreed to use
>>141d in
>> > the north and meridian through Bensbach in the south. So two N-S
>>lines,
>> > slightly offset.
>> > Work began 1966, markers erected in two years.
>> > 1973 agreement lists 14 markers which were erected. 10 marked 141d
>>to the
>> > north of the Fly, and 4 marked the Bensbach meridian, newly
>>determined to be
>> > 141d01'10".
>> > Nowadays, the locations of major villages close to the border have
>>been
>> > determined and signs placed on major tracks crossing to border.
>> > The 1973 agreement does not make preovision for major shifts in Fly
>>river
>> > course, which may be a problem in future.
>> >
>> > See also
>> > Cook, Macartney and stott, 1968, "Where is the border?", Australian
>>External
>> > Territories, 8(5):7-18.
>> > van der Veur, (1966), "Search for New Guinea's boundaries",
>>Canberra.
>> >
>> >
>> >
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