thanx
& good point
tho in cases like these
where the technical savvy of the source cant be taken for granted
i think you just have to guess they mean nad83 on principle
since that is the most usual & the likeliest default mode
but even then keep smiling & your fingers crossed too
in the hopes that they havent introduced some even sillier mistake
on top of this otherwise relatively acceptable ambiguity
for in the present case i can tell you bus&ss gives azconmut coords of
nlat 36d59m56s30 x wlong 109d02m40s24 in nad27
& the paper topo very substantially confirms these are correct
so the wiki coords do prove by this route to at least not be nad27
& are thus likely to be nad83
but if you check them by doing the nad conversion here
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/nadcon.prl
you would get
besides 3 extra decimal places of spurious accuracy
an entirely different ballpark
namely
nlat 36d59m56s29205 x wlong 109d02m42s61258 nad83
as compared with wikipedias
nlat 36d59m56s31532 x wlong 109d02m42s62019 nad unspecified
& that would be close enough to confirm that nad83 was very probably what was meant
but still about a meter of difference in a roughly 60 meter conversion
where we already had the right square foot ourselves
& were expecting submillimetric accuracy
oops
so how did wiki get there
maybe by using a better or worse converter
whether intelligently or stupidly
or maybe they simply copied or miscopied their data from somewhere
which was similarly either more or less reliable
for theres no way of really knowing which if indeed any of the above
& it was therefore silly of me to pretend just because wikipedia showed 5 decimal places
that these were indeed correct or that 5 decimal places were even really known by anyone
for this particular point
even tho degminsec plus 5 decimal places is the general state of the surveyors art today
but another reason to take heart is that even if these data are correct in some sense
there is still no real use to us of such accuracy unless we have equipment sufficiently fine
to generate & use it for homing in on the target any better than we could have homed in
with our naked brain & eyeball
in some cases knowing the correct nad could make all the difference in the world
even with commercial grade gpsrs i suppose
especially for unmarked points or lost markers i would think
but these cases must be relatively rare in the realm of real world multipointing tries
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Wallis" <hugh@o...> wrote:
>
> Great fun - I wish though that when writeups such as the Wikipedia one give
> Lat and Long they would say what reference datum they are using. Without
> that information the large number of decimal digits provided are totally
> useless :(
>
> Happy New Multipointing Year everyone
>
> Hugh
>
>
> _____
>
> From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of aletheia kallos
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:43 PM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Four pointer
>
>
> aha
> & what fun
> for it now seems clear
> they werent really breaking the ground there at all
> but only ceremonially rearranging the sand in an
> imported sandbox
> which they then removed in time for my visit
>
> & yet it is remarkable that they did manage to do
> whatever it was they did do
> with & within all 7 constituencies at once
> even if they did have to fake it in order to do so
>
>
> i cant help wondering tho if the present already
> elaborate quadripoint demarcation on the ground really
> will be broken or lifted or reconstituted in any way
> by this project
> or if their world class enhancements will be confined
> to the less technically demanding environs
> of the more or less immediate quadriarea
> as seems more likely
>
> but in any case all this activity certainly bears
> keeping an eye out for or upon
> or whatever one does with ones eye in a case like this
>
>
> certainly in eager expectation of any new grand
> opening cum parking fee hike etc
>
> but particularly because they seem here
> by their deliberately diagonal placement of the
> ceremonial sandbox
> to already be prefiguring if not outright signaling
> the traditional gods eye diamond
> & hence the 8 directions within the 4 directions & the
> octagon within the square
> for their makeover design motif
>
> --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@w...> wrote:
>
> > If you will go to http://tinyurl.com/cstge (page
> > four of the eight-page PDF) and
> > to http://tinyurl.com/c2fjj , you can read about the
> > groundbreaking ceremony for
> > a new Four Corners Park and Rest Area. Improvements
> > will include a "world-class
> > central plaza," electricity, potable water,
> > restrooms, vending, and additional
> > parking. Completion is expected by this summer.
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@y...>
> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Four pointer
> >
> >
> > > but if wikipedia can be believed
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument
> > > then the quadripoint depiction remained unchanged
> > &
> > > unrenovated as recently as august 2005
> > >
> > > so my fingertips & memory may yet be vindicated
> > > tho not necessarily my reasoning
> > >
> > >
> > > &
> > > as the geoposition is evidently now known &
> > published
> > > there too
> > > down to a submillimetric level of fineness for the
> > > first time that i have noticed
> > > maybe thats all they were celebrating there with
> > the
> > > golden shovels in the sandbox that day
> > >
> > >
> > > --- aletheia kallos <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >> reading you loud & clear roger
> > >> thanx
> > >> & would only add
> > >> since i neglected to mention
> > >> chant realty
> > >> was a most prominent sign yesterday on route 2006
> > >> http://www.smilesonsite.com/Chant/20526/20526.htm
> > >> that
> > >> our beloved azconmut in code talking quadripoint
> > >> here
> > >> of which you sing
> > >> is indeed in a navajo reservation
> > >> at least for its arizona & utah & new mexico
> > >> incantations
> > >> but is actually in a ute mountain ute reservation
> > >> too
> > >> for the remaining inchantment
> > >> aka colorado in that case
> > >>
> > >> so it is technically in no fewer than 7
> > emphatically
> > >> sovereign places at once
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> it was last reported here to have been visited
> > >> furtively on a moonless night & thus only by feel
> > >> in
> > >>
> > >
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/16172
> > >>
> > >> & it certainly must have fooled the visitor into
> > >> thinking it still felt like the same old
> > quadripoint
> > >> we have long known & cherished in that location
> > >> or in other words
> > >>
> > >
> >
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/marc.liaudon/Images/Colorado/Colorado_25_FourCorners
> 2.jpg
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> but i really have to doubt my fingertips & memory
> > >> now
> > >> after having seen this remarkable set of pix
> > taken
> > >> by
> > >> day there only a fortnight before my otherwise
> > >> palpable visitation
> > >>
> > >
> >
> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://governor.utah.gov/photos/Photo
> s%2520from%25202004/11_2004%2520November/2004%2520November%252012/
Four%2520C
> orners%2520Dedication/IMG_0163.JPG&imgrefurl=http://governor.utah.gov/photos
> /Photos%2520from%25202004/11_2004%2520November/
2004%2520November%252012/Four
> %2520Corners%2520Dedication/&h=1704&w=2272&sz=926&tbnid=r-xtCsiW8PQJ:
&tbnh=1
> 12&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=27&prev=/
images%3Fq%3D%2522four%2Bcorners%2522%26sta
>
rt%3D20%26svnum%3D30%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3D
N
> > >>
> > >> for they do clearly show that our high temple &
> > >> shrine
> > >> to multidimensional play had been
> > >> i trust temporarily
> > >> replaced
> > >> by a
> > >> sandbox
> > >>
> > >> hahaha
> > >>
> > >> & was clearly being entirely refurbished in
> > >> preparation for my visit
> > >>
> > >> hahaha
> > >>
> > >> & because i so brashly stole my way in there
> > >> i can finally gather only today that i must have
> > >> missed the whole novelty & treat that awaited me
> > >>
> > >> hahahahaha
> > >>
> > >> & this likely totally renovated azconmut
> > quadripoint
> > >> has evidently been in existence now for over 13
> > >> months
> > >> without our even suspecting it til today
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> what is even odder tho is that these pix are
> > >> essentially uncaptioned
> > >> & unexplained anywhere i have yet been able to
> > >> search
> > >> up
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> so huge thanx back to you for bringing it & this
> > >> fascinating new mystery to our attention
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- Roger McCutcheon <rogerdwmac@t...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I have a paperback version of The Hammond World
> > >> > Atlas (1989) which was a "gift" with a Newsweek
> > >> > subscription, and which has large scale maps of
> > >> each
> > >> > of the United States: I have found in it a
> > >> specific
> > >> > reference to the "Only point in the United
> > States
> > >> > common to four state boundaries", which are
> > Utah,
> > >> > Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico: it is in a
> > >> Navajo
> > >> > Indian Reservation and Google Earth tells me
> > that
> > >> > its coordinates are 37 degrees North, 109
> > degrees
> > >> > 2´40" West. Roger & out.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> __________________________________
> > >> Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
> > >> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
> > > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
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