Subject: Re: My last 3 Japanese Tripoints
Date: Nov 17, 2005 @ 17:04
Author: aletheiak ("aletheiak" <aletheiak@...>)
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--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Wallis" <hugh@o...> wrote:
>
> I believe at least 5 are wet - notably:
>
> Gifu Mie Aichi
> Nagano Aichi Shizuoka
> Tochigi Saitama Ibaraki
> Ibaraki Saitama Chiba
> Saitama Tokyo Chiba
>
> One I would characterise as damp (being in a marshy area according to the
> topo maps) - notably:
>
> Niigata Gumma Fukushima
>
> There may be other wet ones that I just haven't had time to check the maps
> for
>
> Also there are 4 possible additional ones (over and above the 44 you
> identified in an earlier e-mail) that lie in the waters between the islands
> of Shikoku and Honshu which may require some research and debate as to
> whether they qualify as genuine tripoints (i.e., how wet is wet?) - notably:
>
> Hiroshima Yamaguchi Ehime
> Hiroshima Ehime Kagawa
> Okayama Hiroshima Kagawa
> Okayama Kagawa Hyogo
>
> (Apologies for not getting them in correct alphabetical order but I'll leave
> that as a exercise to the reader :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Hugh
>
> P.S. Just for the record here are all of them working from South West to
> North East - I have also included prefectures that have no tripoints by
> identifying those prefectures with which they have a border:
>
>
>
> Island Pref 1 Pref 2 Pref 3 Lat/Long
>
> Kyushu Nagasaki Saga
> Kyushu Saga Fukuoka
>
> Kyushu Kumamoto Kagoshima Miyazaki
> Kyushu Oita Kumamoto Miyazaki
> Kyushu Fukuoka Kumamoto Oita
>
> Shikoku Ehime Kochi Tokushima
> Shikoku Kagawa Ehime Tokushima
>
> Honshu Shimane Yamaguchi Hiroshima
> Honshu Tottori Shimane Hiroshima
> Honshu Tottori Hiroshima Okayama
> Honshu Hyogo Tottori Okayama
> Honshu Kyoto Hyogo Osaka
> Honshu Osaka Wakayama Nara 34°22.986'N, 135°39.066'E
> Honshu Kyoto Osaka Nara 34°46.668'N, 135°43.715'E
> Honshu Nara Wakayama Mie
> Honshu Fukui Kyoto Shiga 35°21.349'N, 135°46.120'E
> Honshu Kyoto Nara Mie 34°44.299'N, 136°03.330'E
> Honshu Shiga Kyoto Mie 34°47.477'N, 136°01.334'E
> Honshu Fukui Shiga Gifu 35°39.506'N, 136°16.837'E
> Honshu Gifu Shiga Mie 35°13.058'N, 136°24.903'E
> Honshu Gifu Mie Aichi 35°08.077'N, 136°40.368'E
> Honshu Ishikawa Fukui Gifu 36°05.164'N, 136°45.242'E
> Honshu Toyama Ishikawa Gifu 36°17.948'N, 136°47.535'E
> Honshu Nagano Gifu Aichi 35°17.345'N, 137°33.712'E
> Honshu Nagano Toyama Gifu 36°23.380'N, 137°35.230'E
> Honshu Niigata Toyama Nagano 36°45.962'N, 137°45.743'E
> Honshu Nagano Aichi Shizuoka 35°12.734'N, 137°50.283'E
> Honshu Nagano Shizuoka Yamanashi 35°38.661'N, 138°13.119'E
>
> Honshu Saitama Nagano Yamanashi 35°54.541'N, 138°43.742'E
>
> Honshu Gumma Nagano Saitama 35°59.109'N, 138°42.748'E
> Honshu Niigata Nagano Gumma 36°44.297'N, 138°41.756'E
> Honshu Yamanashi Shizuoka Kanagawa 35°24.026'N,
> 138°54.974'E
> Honshu Saitama Yamanashi Tokyo 35°51.276'N, 138°56.625'E
>
> Honshu Tokyo Yamanashi Kanagawa 35°40.312'N, 139°07.859'E
>
> Honshu Niigata Gumma Fukushima 36°56.422'N, 139°13.907'E
>
> Honshu Fukushima Gumma Tochigi 36°54.632'N, 139°23.594'E
>
> Honshu Tochigi Gumma Saitama 36°12.421'N, 139°39.853'E
>
> Honshu Tochigi Saitama Ibaraki 36°11.968'N,
> 139°41.263'E
> Honshu Ibaraki Saitama Chiba 36°05.438'N, 139°46.562'E
>
> Honshu Saitama Tokyo Chiba 35°46.954'N, 139°53.613'E
> Honshu Fukushima Tochigi Ibaraki 36°55.990'N,
> 140°15.853'E
> Honshu Yamagata Niigata Fukushima
> Honshu Miyagi Yamagata Fukushima
> Honshu Akita Yamagata Miyagi
> Honshu Akita Miyagi Iwate
> Honshu Aomori Akita Iwate
>
> Sea Hiroshima Yamaguchi Ehime
> Sea Hiroshima Ehime Kagawa
> Sea Okayama Hiroshima Kagawa
> Sea Okayama Kagawa Hyogo
>
> Hokkaido Hokkaido
>
>
> _____
>
> From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of aletheia kallos
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:06 AM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [BoundaryPoint] Re: My last 3 Japanese Tripoints
>
>
> thanx i immediately understood or even anticipated all
> this
> as i had already dropped my class d guess myself last
> night
> as soon as i realized there just isnt enough parallax
> between the 2 long views to support it
> while i am not at all surprised to find our 922 tower
> guesses & all your other data confirmations
> do match up with mine so perfectly
>
> so yes i do very much see & agree now
>
> the tripoint will be found way closer to the
> nonviewing tower than my imagined marker
> & at something very much more on the order of only 2
> degrees to the left of that tower
> rather than 20 degrees
> oops
> hahahaha
>
> in fact almost closer to its base than is its own apex
>
> but so much the more likely obscured rather than
> highlighted by veggies
>
> & thus elusive after all
>
>
> but i would love to walk those last 100 or so steps
> up
> the communications tower first btw
> even if only just for the previewing of the tripoint &
> immediate triarea
>
> for this tower
> rather than your viewing tower properly so called
> could well prove to be the worlds most magnificent
> tripoint viewing tower
>
>
> & to climb those steps btw not only for that obvious
> reason
> but also to at least address & relish the probability
> in that tower
> of reaching some absolutely true
> rather than conveniently compromised & moderated
> altitudinal extremity
> of some real place perhaps
> even if not a whole prefecture
> & conceivably even of 2 real places at once
> in view of its ridge line borderline location
>
> & even if actually shimmying up to the very top of the
> tower proves impossible
>
> or even if the altitude of the top of the peak tower
> proves higher
>
> albeit luckily higher in both those places at once
> also
> hahaha
> for happily too it looks like a close call between
> these state line tower tops for the altimeters
>
>
> & i am also pleased to add to your overall analysis
> that my admittedly still crude & preliminary
> punctoscopy of the prefectural tripoints of japan
> suggests that as many as 36 of the probably 44 of them
> in all are in fact dry
>
> so we have many more prospective markers to at least
> try for
>
> in fact japan is looking almost as good in this regard
> as the berkshire county town tripoints
> where i am still at least expecting & hoping for all
> 44 markers out of all 44 tripoints
>
>
> but of course every try is its own reward too
> whether wet dry marked unmarked or even known at all
> & i very much enjoyed & appreciated all 5 of yours
> here in its & their own right too
>
> --- Hugh Wallis <hugh@o...> wrote:
>
> > OK - let me try to set the stage a bit better.
> >
> > The tower you see in my photograph is not a viewing
> > tower as far as I can
> > tell - it looks more like a communications tower. My
> > photo was taken from
> > the top of the viewing tower which is what I paid
> > 100 yen (which is only
> > about CDN 1.00) to go up and which is the white
> > tower pictured on the right
> > hand side of the ticket.
> >
> > The radio tower is the taller of the two towers but
> > lower down as you
> > surmise and is approximately at the point on the map
> > marked with a spot
> > height of 922m I would guess. The viewing tower is
> > approximately at the
> > point on the map marked as a trig point (with a
> > triangle) - about 100m from
> > the geocache. My GPSr indicated that the tripoint
> > was approximately 800m
> > from the viewing tower in the direction of the radio
> > tower. From the map I
> > conclude that it is beyond the radio tower.
> >
> > I see the white post you refer to but, from the
> > above analysis and the map I
> > would think this is unlikely to be the tripoint
> > marker since it seems to be
> > too far to the left to my thinking.
> >
> > From my observations at the four dry tries I made
> > (and, indeed, the wet one)
> > I conclude at this stage that boundary and tripoint
> > marking is sporadic in
> > Japan. Some of the markers I photographed (the stone
> > ones) appear to be
> > older, some newer, and some (the plastic ones which
> > are very firmly embedded
> > in the ground, by the way - I did try tugging on
> > them) very new indeed,
> > possibly recently surveyed for specfic reasons such
> > as the construction of
> > the golf course etc. It is also instructive that in
> > the area of
> > Kanagawa-Shizuoka-Yamanashi, the only border markers
> > I could locate were
> > those on the Kanagawa-Yamanashi and the
> > Shizuoka-Kanagawa borders - the
> > Shizuoka-Yamanashi border did not appear to be
> > marked, providing further
> > evidence for my supposition.
> >
> > In summary - I don't think that all dry tripoints in
> > Japan are physically
> > marked on the ground.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Hugh
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of aletheiak
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:19 PM
> > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: My last 3 Japanese
> > Tripoints
> >
> >
> > now hugh about fsibtc again
> > at the bottom of http://tinyurl.com/9gzsz
> > i have still not been able to get completely clear
> >
> > you say there is a viewing tower at the top of the
> > mountain
> > & you show 2 towers
> > either one of which could conceivably be the one you
> > mean
> >
> > but then i also would have just guessed you
> > photographed the taller but
> > apparently lower
> > tower from the shorter but apparently higher one
> > that is
> > until i saw the 100 yen price tag on the latter
> >
> > &
> > the slight difference between the 2 viewing angles
> > of this taller lower
> > tower also suggests
> > you may have taken your magnificent panoramic
> > atmospheric photo of it not
> > from the
> > actual summit & small tower & geocache point
> > necessarily at all
> > like the other one
> > if indeed they were all 3 of them at this singular
> > mountaintop location
> > as perhaps hinted by you & the gcm5pp dot & or
> > nearby triangle on your map
> > swatch
> > but rather
> > from perhaps much closer to the bottom center of
> > this map swatch
> > i would guess
> > where you also evidently passed
> >
> > & i have guessed this
> > as well as provisionally placed the tall tower on
> > the elevation point
> > indicated as 922 on the
> > map swatch
> > just for lack of anything more definitive to go on
> > which perhaps you can still provide in correction
> >
> > & then
> > continuing hypothetically by measuring the viewing
> > angle toward the tripoint
> > at about 20
> > degrees left of the centered tower based on all the
> > above surmises
> > lo & behold
> > what do i see there in plain view but a tall thin
> > white post
> > in a light brown patch set off by a dark green
> > background
> > at roughly kilometric range
> > about midway between the tower & the power pole line
> > cum perhaps roadway to
> > its left
> >
> > but do you follow any of this or
> > more importantly
> > do you
> > s e e
> > in your pic the object i am talking about
> >
> > for thats a clear class d guess
> > rather than some impossibly elusive class e hope
> >
> > or has my imagination run away from us already
> >
> >
> > but anyway
> > while you are mulling & or laughing over that
> > a perhaps bigger question
> > now that we have had serious tries at so many as 4
> > dry ones
> > is
> > do you imagine they are all in fact marked
> > with some just being more elusive than others for
> > various reasons
> > or do you suppose they are indifferently &
> > haphazardly marked as chance
> > would have it
> >
> > in other words
> > given sufficient time & care & luck etc
> > from all youve seen & been able to learn for sure as
> > well as just guess
> > do you think you would have bagged all 4 of these
> > class a
> > just like you surely did with knszyn
> > & that we can therefore still expect or hope there
> > are as many marked
> > prefectural tripoints
> > in japan as there are dry ones
> >
> > or is it still too soon to hazard any such
> > generalization
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Wallis"
> > <hugh@o...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Report is now available at
> > >
> >
> http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/Japan_2005-11-12_to_2005-11-1
> > > 4/ - a.k.a. http://tinyurl.com/9gzsz
> > >
> > > This covers my visits to:
> > >
> > > Kyoto-Mie-Nara
> > > Kanagawa-Shizuoka-Yamanashi
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > Ibaraki -Fukushima-Tochigi
> > >
> > > Enjoy
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Hugh
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
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