hahahaha
nice one
our multidimensional pursuit turns the normal circulation on its ear
& it is really we all who should be thanking you for inspiring this very appreciable
advancement on the state of play here
for with the benefit of all this new & much closer scrutiny
we can now probably refine the true njnypa trifinial diagram further as follows
& of course this is all assuming the 1786 njpa compact proves to be as silent as i imagine
it will be on the issue of how njpa gets from midriver to the neversink mouth dimple
the text of which btw
according to bus&ss
can be found in
laws of new jersey
1821 edition
pages 78&79
perhaps available in one of your local libraries
but assuming nothing new there & pending any further definitive findings
however unlikely
we already apparently know by measuring the topo that njny bears away from njnypa at
about e29s
&
we believe the witness monument is telling the truth when it says nypa bears away from
njnypa due west
& so
regardless of the aspersions we have had to sprinkle on the nypa convergent depicted on
the tri states rock
we can still fairly confidently attribute around 209 degrees of arc to the true new york slice
of the true njnypa pie
&
having also confirmed by eyeball that the depiction of njny at least
on the tri states rock
is at least approximately accurate
&
having determined by measuring on the photo of the tri states rock the angle between the
njny & njpa convergents
upon which no aspersions have been sprinkled
that the new jersey slice of the pie is around 136 degrees
inasmuch as we have nothing better & may never have anything better to go on
we can conclude at least provisionally that the pennsylvania sliver comprises only the
approximately 15 degrees of arc that remain in the 360 degree total
& that is a much different diagram than the one shown on the rock
but i believe we finally have it about right now with this
& the new diagram also suggests or indicates further
not at all the gradual feathering out of njpa to the midriver position
as shown on the topo
but rather quite a sharp jut with a turnpoint just below & in general alignment with the
midriver nypa line that is correctly shown on the topo
& which the true njpa then effectively resumes just downstream of nypa
after the slight interruption for the intervening 15degree 274foot njnypa sliver
measuring only about 90 feet wide at midriver at its broadest
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, spookymike@a... wrote:
> Mike, thanks for the reference to msg #283. I knew there was no way this one
> hadn't been discussed before. It was indeed very neat to get out onto dry
> NJPA. I've never seen the river so low and calm, and clear as well. Even two
> toddlers in our group were able to wade out to the slightly detached farthest
> south sandbar. Ironic that the river is so low, considering it had (I believe)
> its third worst flood ever this past spring. As far as "rock trumps paper,"
> that is a neat reversal of "paper covers rock."
> Now if we can scissors to cut rock (other than pumice or talc), and paper to
> smash scissors, we can set up our own BoundaryPoint version of the old
> scissors-paper-rock game.
>
> Mike S.
>
> In a message dated 7/6/05 5:02:16 AM, BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> << Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:31:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: aletheia kallos <aletheiak@y...>
> Subject: Re: NJ-NY-PA
>
> nice one mike
> & we do indeed have a long history here with njnypa
> but i am glad to see the trying & the pointing are so
> alive & well there
>
> for in fact we have been aware of the probable error
> in the usgs topo since at least
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/283
> along with the several other likely tristate errors
> noted alongside it
> so your finding even such a glaring discrepancy as you
> have found here is in itself not necessarily a
> complete show stopper
>
> & since the tri states rock is supported by the nearby
> njny witness monument in the attached pix stipulating
> to its authenticity & position
> i dont think we have to detain ourselves very long
> over the usgs error
>
> for clearly the rocks must trump the paper
>
> & after all these years
> i am no longer able to vouch for the exact dimensions
> inscribed on the witness monument
> but it appears to say
> south 64 degrees west 82 feet from this is the tri
> states rock
> which is the nw end of njny & the north end of njpa
> &
> the nypa corner is in the center of the river 276 feet
> due west of the tsr
>
> however
> the angle of nypa shown on the topo & on the tsr
> itself dont support this testimony from the witness
> rock
> hahaha
> yikes
> for both show nypa bearing wnw from the tsr to this
> first turnpoint
>
> so
> that particular detail at least does appear to involve
> a clear discrepancy
> which is indeed etched in both stone & paper
>
> my guess is that the due west bearing mentioned on the
> witness rock trumps the slightly stylized depiction of
> that convergent line on the tsr
> & that nypa should thus angle closer to njpa in the
> diagram on the tsr as well as on the topo depiction
>
> also
> somewhat mitigating the usgs error
> we have in fact found the tristates rock isolated from
> the peninsula & even completely submerged at times
> making a wet point of njnypa at least in flood stage
> more or less as depicted
>
> still there is no reason to have much confidence in
> the geodetic position indicated for the trifinium on
> the topo
> nor in commercial gps receivers at less than 100 foot
> range anyway
> or so i would guess
> tho i am not a gps maven by any stretch
>
> extreme congrats on the careful try in any case
> & for all the interesting observations
>
> you are the first known visitor to have ever walked
> out onto the delaware bed
>
> tho there is lots of dry denj to walk
> this is the only known reach of dry njpa
>
> --- spookymike@a... wrote:
>
> > I revisited NJNYPA on July 4. I had always wondered
> > about the apparent
> > discrepancy between the placement of "tri-state
> > rock" on bedrock at the tip of the
> > peninsula and the positioning on the topo, which
> > shows the point out in the
> > river. I used topozone to
> > identify (NAD 27) coordinates for the point in the
> > river and the tip of the
> > peninsula.
> >
> > Trifinium:
> >
> http://topozone.com/map.asp?
z=18&n=4578239&e=525470&s=25&size=s&u=1&layer=DRG2
> 5
> >
> > Tip of Peninsula:
> >
> http://topozone.com/map.asp?
z=18&n=4578244&e=525506&s=25&size=s&u=1&layer=DRG2
> 5
> >
> > Standing atop tri-state rock, GPS placed the
> > trifinium some 100 feet further
> > south into the river, fortunately accessible this
> > day because the river was
> > low and two sand bars extended south from the tip of
> > the peninsula. Once I
> > walked out to the farthest sand bar, GPS said I was
> > about 40 feet from the
> > trifinium, which is about as close as my Garmin
> > Summit unit ever gets to pre-entered
> > waypoints before it starts
> > "wandering."
> >
> > These results seem to bear out the position of the
> > trifinium as being out in
> > the river, as shown on the map, rather than at
> > tri-state rock. If this has
> > already been beat to death, my apologies, but does
> > anyone have any answers to
> > this apparent discrepancy?
> >
> > Mike Schwartz
> >