& since the nypa convergent of the trifinial diagram on the tri states rock is so flatly
contradicted by the presumably authoritative text of the nearby witness monument
it is also worth at least questioning the other 2 convergents on the diagram as well
fortunately the njny convergent is in perfect alignment with a njny fence line that can be
eyeballed from the tri states rock on the opposite bank of the neversink tributary
so there is presumably no problem at all with that part of the diagram at least
but there is no known support for the bearing of the njpa convergent on this diagram
& 2 messy questions do remain about it
exactly where does njpa leave its normal position in the middle of the delaware river
& by exactly what alignment
if not the one depicted
does it proceed from there to the tri states rock position
for the midriver njpa state line is regulated by an 18th century compact that is very
probably oblivious & negligent of both these questions
& in this case all we probably have to guide us is the bearing shown on the discredited
diagram itself
yikes
but i would still guess that this little bit of something engraved in stone still trumps
nothing at all
so until & unless any better data are found
i would say the bearing of the njpa convergent shown in the diagram
& its point of departure from the normal midriver location of njpa
are fairly well defined by this otherwise discredited diagram
& no matter that the nypa convergent also shown on it is so demonstrably wrong
what fun
& it means we still do have a little somewhere to go & grow at njnypa after all this
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, aletheia kallos <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> nice one mike
> & we do indeed have a long history here with njnypa
> but i am glad to see the trying & the pointing are so
> alive & well there
>
> for in fact we have been aware of the probable error
> in the usgs topo since at least
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/283
> along with the several other likely tristate errors
> noted alongside it
> so your finding even such a glaring discrepancy as you
> have found here is in itself not necessarily a
> complete show stopper
>
> & since the tri states rock is supported by the nearby
> njny witness monument in the attached pix stipulating
> to its authenticity & position
> i dont think we have to detain ourselves very long
> over the usgs error
>
> for clearly the rocks must trump the paper
>
> & after all these years
> i am no longer able to vouch for the exact dimensions
> inscribed on the witness monument
> but it appears to say
> south 64 degrees west 82 feet from this is the tri
> states rock
> which is the nw end of njny & the north end of njpa
> &
> the nypa corner is in the center of the river 276 feet
> due west of the tsr
>
> however
> the angle of nypa shown on the topo & on the tsr
> itself dont support this testimony from the witness
> rock
> hahaha
> yikes
> for both show nypa bearing wnw from the tsr to this
> first turnpoint
>
> so
> that particular detail at least does appear to involve
> a clear discrepancy
> which is indeed etched in both stone & paper
>
> my guess is that the due west bearing mentioned on the
> witness rock trumps the slightly stylized depiction of
> that convergent line on the tsr
> & that nypa should thus angle closer to njpa in the
> diagram on the tsr as well as on the topo depiction
>
> also
> somewhat mitigating the usgs error
> we have in fact found the tristates rock isolated from
> the peninsula & even completely submerged at times
> making a wet point of njnypa at least in flood stage
> more or less as depicted
>
> still there is no reason to have much confidence in
> the geodetic position indicated for the trifinium on
> the topo
> nor in commercial gps receivers at less than 100 foot
> range anyway
> or so i would guess
> tho i am not a gps maven by any stretch
>
> extreme congrats on the careful try in any case
> & for all the interesting observations
>
> you are the first known visitor to have ever walked
> out onto the delaware bed
>
> tho there is lots of dry denj to walk
> this is the only known reach of dry njpa
>
> --- spookymike@a... wrote:
>
> > I revisited NJNYPA on July 4. I had always wondered
> > about the apparent
> > discrepancy between the placement of "tri-state
> > rock" on bedrock at the tip of the
> > peninsula and the positioning on the topo, which
> > shows the point out in the
> > river. I used topozone to
> > identify (NAD 27) coordinates for the point in the
> > river and the tip of the
> > peninsula.
> >
> > Trifinium:
> >
> http://topozone.com/map.asp?
z=18&n=4578239&e=525470&s=25&size=s&u=1&layer=DRG25
> >
> > Tip of Peninsula:
> >
> http://topozone.com/map.asp?
z=18&n=4578244&e=525506&s=25&size=s&u=1&layer=DRG25
> >
> > Standing atop tri-state rock, GPS placed the
> > trifinium some 100 feet further
> > south into the river, fortunately accessible this
> > day because the river was
> > low and two sand bars extended south from the tip of
> > the peninsula. Once I
> > walked out to the farthest sand bar, GPS said I was
> > about 40 feet from the
> > trifinium, which is about as close as my Garmin
> > Summit unit ever gets to pre-entered
> > waypoints before it starts
> > "wandering."
> >
> > These results seem to bear out the position of the
> > trifinium as being out in
> > the river, as shown on the map, rather than at
> > tri-state rock. If this has
> > already been beat to death, my apologies, but does
> > anyone have any answers to
> > this apparent discrepancy?
> >
> > Mike Schwartz
> >
>
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