As
usual: The catholics cannot get enough - always more, more,
more!
UPDATE:
At
"a.", in my last message, I should have included Monaco.
At b(3), Vatican,
another document from the EC made note that the
Vatican more recently
requested and received authorization to increase
its Euro-coins outut to 1M
Mill./year.
An agreement was to have been concluded in Nov 04 between
the
community and Andorra on its special situation (unlike Vatican,
Monaco
and San Marino, it never had coinage rights in all its history, and
to
give it Euro coinage rights now is a peculiarity that was to be
dealt
with). I can't find a copy of any agreement, so I'm not able
to
confirm what the situation is in Andorra right now.
LN
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
<lnadybal@c...>
wrote:
>
> In further researching the
subject of "National Euros" vs. "A Single
> Euro" used by all, I came
across what may, I hope, be interesting
> surprises for readers.
>
> a. The European Central Bank (ECB)
officially considers the
> Vatican, San Marino and Andorra to be
"non-Euro" states.
>
> b. The ECB
carefully makes note in official releases that the
> European Community
(Strasbourg), and not the Bank, authorized these
> three countries to
issue their own Euro coins.
>
> (1) Since 1
January 1999 the Principality of Monaco has been
> entitled to use the
euro as its official currency. It does not have
> the right to issue
euro banknotes. Since 1 January 2002 it has been
> entitled to issue
euro coins with an annual volume of 1/500th of the
> quantity of coins
minted in France.
>
> (2) Since 1
January 1999 the Republic of San Marino has been
> entitled to use the
euro as its official currency. It does not issue
> banknotes, coins or
monetary surrogates of any kind, with the
> exception of the limited
number of euro coins specified in the
> Agreement. It is allowed to mint
euro coins up to a maximum annual
> face value of EUR 1 944 000.
>
> (3)
Since 1 January 1999 the Vatican City State has been
> entitled to use
the euro as its official currency. It does not issue
> banknotes, coins
or monetary surrogates of any kind, with the
> exception of the limited
number of euro coins specified in the
> Agreement. It is allowed to mint
euro coins up to a maximum annual
> face value of EUR 670 000. In the
year in which a vacancy occurs in
> the Holy See, in a Holy Jubilee Year
or in the year of the opening of
> an Ecumenical Council, it may issue
additional coins to the value of
> EUR 201 000.
>
> [(1) -
(3) pasted from the EEC document.]
>
> The agreements with these
three were concluded by Italy and France
> with the countries concerned,
"on behalf" of the Community, in
> accordance with Article 111(3)
of the EC Treaty. The agreement with
> the Vatican was concluded by the
Holy See "on behalf of the Vatican
> City State".
>
> What
is intersting, is that for all three mini-states, they are
> entitled to
issue Euro denominated commemorative collector coins, but
> the are, by
these treaties, not legal tender outside of their own
borders.
>
> Historically, "the Franc coins of Monaco were not legal tender
in
> France, but the French currency was legal tender in Monaco"
according
> to the European Commission.
>
> "Italy
has concluded several agreements with San Marino containing
> provisions
on monetary matters to the effect that notes and coins
> issued by Italy
were legal tender in San Marino. With the exception of
> gold coins,
coins issued by San Marino had the same shape, size and
> composition as
coins circulating in Italy. The agreements limited the
> number of such
coins that could be issued; these coins were legal
> tender in San
Marino and in Italy."
>
> "Italy also has particular monetary
links with the Vatican that are
> based on an agreement whereby coins
issued by Italy were legal tender
> in the Vatican. Notes issued by the
Bank of Italy were not legal
> tender [!!!] but, in practice, circulated
on Vatican territory. ...
> The agreement limited the number of such
coins that could be issued;
> these were legal tender in the Vatican and
in Italy."
>
> ["" text pasted from past press releases of the
EC.]
>
> My conclusions about all of this are that the Euros
authorized by
> Europe (Munzrecht, in German)) are "national Euros", in
that they are
> issued by countries outside of the Euro Zone, and
commemorative,
> collector Euro coins can be issued by these countries
that would have
> validity as legal tender only inside the sovereign
nation that issued
> them.
>
> Regards to all.
>
> LN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
"Wolfgang Schaub"
> <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> >
Formally, you are right in a way, Len, as always. By the same
token,
the
> > "universal" currency converter should then distinguish
between a
> German and
> > a French Euro, because they both
have a different physiognomy.
> >
> > And why don't they
list then the old San Marino Lira like they do
> with the
> >
other "obsolete" European currencies? I have a San Marino Lira coin
> in
my
> > collection. And why not the Monaco Franc? I have a Monaco
Franc coin
> in my
> > collection.
> >
> >
Although this is increasingly off-topic: There was no Vatican Lira
> in
terms
> > of currency. There was a Vatican Lira only in terms of
physiognomy.
> Or: Does
> > anybody know of a Vatican Central
Bank?
> >
> > The story is different with the old Luxemburg
and Belgian Francs:
> These were
> > true currencies, just
bound to each other. And probably this is also
> so with
> >
the Panama, Argentina and Ecuador currencies (but here I am not so
>
sure).
> >
> > Definitely there is no Seborga currency
either, although there are
> coins for
> > collectors that one
can buy in any Seborga shop, like they are in San
> > Marino, Monaco
and the Vatican. The catholic church would be the
> least to
>
> omit a chance to make money out of nothing. The fact that mints may
be
> > operating in these countries does not mean anything. If I
want, I
> also can
> > produce my own coins at home.
>
>
> > And as far as the Euro goes, there is only one, managed by
the
European
> > Central Bank in Frankfurt. That Euros have
different reverse sides
> is only a
> > political game and made
for collectors. That member countries retain
> their
> >
respective National Banks is only for statistics and to manage the
>
> conversion of "obsolete" coins and paper bills found in jacket
>
pockets when
> > one pulls them out from a long-unopened wardrobe. As
Germany is
> concerned
> > one can swap Deutsche Marks against
Euros for an indefinite period...
> >
> > Wolfgang
>
>
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----
> > Von: L. A. Nadybal
[mailto:lnadybal@c...]
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. Februar
2005 05:44
> > An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>
> Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Seborga's currency
> >
> >
> >
> > The Vatican had its own
Lira - it issued its own coins (albeit some
> > produced
by the Italian state mint). With the Euro, the Vatican
has,
>
> from the European Central Bank, its own allocation from the
universe
> > of Euros that can be issued by each monetary
authority (as does San
> > Marino).
> >
>
> Vatican Euros are not Italian Euros although they are worth
exactly
> > the same, and each countries' Euros circulate
in both neighboring
> > countries and are mutually
accepted as legal tender.
> >
> > The Vatican
situation wasn't much diferent in the Lira days than
that
>
> which exists in Panama. As far as I know from my Canal
Zone days,
> > Panama has the Balboa which is worth
exactly the same as a US
dollar,
> > but it has never
issued Balboa banknotes, only Balboa coins. For
> >
banknotes, US dollar bills circulate. Unlike Rome, however,
Balboa
> > coins don't circulate in the US and are not
legal tender here.
> >
> > LN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> >
<Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> > > There is
other nonsense in the "Universal Currency Converter":
They
>
> speak of
> > > a Vatican Lira
(obsolete). To my knowledge this was always the
> >
Italian Lira,
> > > as it is, by the way, in Seborga:
The Luigino is fiction, as far
> as it
> > >
claims to be a currency; it is reality, as far as it is a souvenir
>
> that you
> > > can buy in shops in
Seborga at a rate dictated by Sua Altissima
> Serenita
>
> > Prince Giorgio I. Still to-date, Prince Giorgio believes
it makes
> > sense to
> > > set
the "exchange rate" at 1 : 6 to the US Dollar. Tomorrow he may
>
> choose to
> > > set a new rate
"bound" to the Euro or the Swiss Franc. He will
go on
>
> doing
> > > his nonsense at the
pleasure of Silvio Berlusconi, and make a
lot of
> >
money
> > > for Seborga, through the stupidity of
(American) tourists.
> "Look, honey,
> > > it's
so easy to change; they gonna give us 1 for 6 bucks".
> >
>
> > > Wolfgang
> >
> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> >
> Von: Asher Samuels [mailto:asher972@y...]
>
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Februar 2005
13:34
> > > An:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >
Betreff: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Seborga's currency
> >
>
> > >
> > >
It could be in there as a copyright trap.
> >
> --- Brendan Whyte <bwhyte@u...> wrote:
>
> >
> > > > If you go
to the Universal Currency Converter
> > >
> http://www.xe.com/ucc/full.shtml
>
> > > you will find Seborga's Luigino
currency listed alongside
> all other
> >
> > national currencies...
> >
> > 1 SPL = 4.60780 EUR
> >
> > 1 EUR = 0.217023 SPL
> >
> >
> > > >
intriguing...
> > > >
>
> > >
> >
> > Brendan
> > >
>
> >
> > >
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