Kevin - Thanks for making this much more clear with
this detailed structure/history of subdivisions.
Seems to be a very complicated system, but it makes
much more sense now.
One question I have is that the point in Jesper's
original message
(http://www.jbutler.org.uk/e2e/ssw/w6/index.shtml) is
supposed to be of three parishes. But from all the
searching on the internet I have done, the journey
seems to be in Scotland. I know the Tweed forms the
border between England and Scotland, but isn't this
further downstream from this location (Innerleithen to
Galashiels)? So if this is indeed Scotland do you
think they use "parishes" but meant "communities" or
do you think these could be ecclesiastical parishes?
-Mike

--- Kevin Meynell <knm@...> wrote:

> Michael,
>
> >Can anyone explain the British subdivisions, so
> this point will be clearer?
>
> Hmmm.. this is not straightforward anymore. Since
> the 1995-6 local
> government reforms, the administrative subdivisions
> have changed, and there
> is no consistent pattern. Furthermore, the system is
> different in the four
> constituent countries, with parishes and communities
> being an additional
> complication.
>
> In most parts of England, the general progression of
> subdivisions is...
>
> National Government -> County ->
> District/Borough/City -> (Parish/Town)
>
> However, many areas now have so-called unitary
> authorities (which provides
> all local services). In some cases (e.g. the Isle of
> Wight) this is the
> County and there are no districts (although there
> are still parishes)...
>
> National Government -> County -> (Parish/Town)
>
> In other cases, usually the 'new' counties
> established in 1972 (e.g. Avon,
> Cleveland, Greater Manchester), the unitary
> authorities are based on
> districts/boroughs/cities which fall within the
> former county. The county
> still exists for ceremonial and postal purposes, but
> there is no longer any
> unit of local government at that level (although
> police forces can still be
> based on county areas if sufficiently large
> enough)...
>
> National Government -> District/Borough/City ->
> (Parish/Town)
>
> Then in yet other cases (e.g. Derbyshire), one or
> more urban areas may be
> turned into unitary authorities, with the remainder
> of the county forming
> another unitary authority. However, the county as a
> whole still exists for
> ceremonial and postal purpose...
>
> National Government -> County/Borough/City ->
> (Parish/Town)
>
> Finally, Greater London is different again, and
> there are also no parishes...
>
> National Government -> Greater London ->
> Borough/City
>
> Wales has a slightly different set-up, although it's
> more consistent. They
> have unitary authorities throughout, some based on
> the 1972 counties (e.g.
> Powys) and others based on former districts and
> cities (which were
> themselves often based on the traditional Welsh
> counties). The county has
> ceased to exist in Wales, except in the name of
> certain unitary
> authorities. You also have the newly-created Welsh
> Assembly which has taken
> over responsibility for certain matters from the UK
> national government.
>
> National Government -> Welsh Assembly ->
> District/City/Borough -> (Community)
>
> Scotland is entirely based on unitary authorities,
> often based on the names
> of the traditional counties. This includes three
> island authorities, and of
> course the Scottish Parliament on top of all of
> this.
>
> National Government -> Scottish Parliament ->
> District/City/Borough ->
> (Community)
>
> Northern Ireland is also entirely based on unitary
> authorities, although
> you frequently hear reference to the traditional
> counties. In theory, it
> also has a provincial assembly, but that's currently
> suspended. I don't
> think Northern Ireland has either parishes or
> communities.
>
> National Government -> Northern Ireland Assembly ->
> District/City/Borough
>
> Just to complicate things further, the traditional
> English counties that
> were established in Norman times and existed until
> 1972, are still commonly
> referred to, and used for many non-official purposes
> such as sport. Whilst
> these are mostly the same as the modern counties,
> you will sometimes see
> reference to Rutlandshire, Huntingdonshire,
> Middlesex, Cumberland,
> Westmoreland and the three Ridings of Yorkshire
> (East, West and North)
> which were merged into neighbouring counties. In
> addition, some of the
> boundaries of the surviving counties were altered
> quite significantly (e.g.
> the whole of North Berkshire was transferred to
> Oxfordshire).
>
> The Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man are not
> part of the UK and have
> their own governments and sub-divisions (which are
> based on parishes).
>
> >What level is a parish?
>
> As mentioned, parishes (usually known as towns in
> urban areas) do not exist
> consistently. They are found as a further
> administrative sub-division in
> most (all) rural areas, but rarely within boroughs
> and cities. However,
> they sometimes live on in urban areas when the
> boundaries of those latter
> entities are moved to incorporate formerly rural
> areas. For example, where
> I live, there are three parishes within the city
> boundaries, even though
> most of the city doesn't have them.
>
> Incidentally, we're talking here about civil
> parishes as opposed to
> ecclesiastical parishes. Traditionally they were one
> and the same thing
> (i.e. the area covered by an Anglican church), but
> no such assumptions can
> be made now.
>
> >Does this mean Districts and Unitary Authorities
> change boundaries too?
>
> Absolutely. There have been two major
> reorganisations in recent times -
> 1972-74 and 1995-96, but minor adjustments are made
> all the time. County
> boundaries tend to be fairly inviolate because
> that's the unit that most
> (English) people identify with, but even they're
> changed sometimes.
>
> Electoral wards (which differ for Parliamentary and
> Council elections) are
> supposed to follow existing administrative
> boundaries where possible (and I
> don't think they ever span counties), but they're
> reviewed every ten years
> and it's not always possible to have exact
> alignments.
>
> Sorry, this message is so long, but unfortunately I
> don't think there's any
> other way to properly answer your questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin Meynell
>
>

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