--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Flynn, Kevin" <flynnk@r...>
wrote:

> As I recall, you're correct that the Post Mark'd West is *not* to same as
> PADEMD. It was a reference point that established the latitude for the west
> line. The actual tripoint was a bit west of the post.
>
> Unfortunately for those who like neat lines and angles, PAMDDE did *not*
> occur at the point where the New Castle Arc met the west line.

& there is more to this story than meets the eye too

the depa arc as it exists today is actually 2 different arcs with 2
slightly different centers & 2 slightly different radii

their imperceptible point of intersection falls near the middle of what
appears to be a single sweep of arc running all the way from the
delaware river down to the mason dixon line

& the transition point of these 2 slightly different arcs
which has nothing to do with the wedge
is even marked by a special stone
which i have also visited

it is all extremely complicated & esoteric

more below

Instead, the

> 800-acre or so Delaware Notch was the result. IIRC, the notch at one time
> was claimed by PA after the three counties once controlled by Penn and his
> heirs became Delaware instead of the three lower counties of Pennsylvania.
> If this claim had stood, the PADEMD tripoint would be due south a mile or so
> of where it presently is

actually about 3 & a half miles south of demdpa
which is a bit disconcerting
because that is the about same distance east of demdpa i make the
meridian of the stargazers stone & the post marked west out to be

but it could just be a coincidence rather than any evidence of a
misunderstanding

the accounts are all very confused tho

hopefully danson will settle everything

anyway i have visited this paleo demdpa point too
which you are referring to
at the south tip of the wedge

it is within the grounds of a top secret dupont chemical complex

i once got a guided tour from their security people

then when i tried at a later date to revisit this same compound
i was refused admittance

this was when i was seeking dew
the westernmost point of delaware
situated a short distance down the demd arc from paleo demdpa

this was part of a cardinal news tour of delaware tho
& was only coincidentally riddled with mason dixon stones

the demd arc btw is based on a third center & a third radius

& there are 2 distinct denj arcs too
with still other specs
making 5 entirely different arcs in all among the 4 states i think

end insertions

, and PA would have a miniscule "tooth" of territory

> south of the Mason Dixon Line.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: m06079 [mailto:barbaria_longa@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 12:01 PM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] re mason dixon preliminary points
>
>
> please see below for an addition to the following excerpts from
> message 10452 about how mason & dixon got to their mdpa starting point
>
> the ref is to a book by edwin danson entitled drawing the line
> which btw i still havent seen but am looking for
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "acroorca2002" <orc@o...> wrote:
> > thanx kevin
> > sounds like a book many of us will enjoy
> >
> > after some searching
> > i believe i have found the location you mentioned on south street
> > & will look for a commemorative plaque or something
> > on the specified north wall
> > next time i blow thru there
> >
> > are there any more data in the book about this most precious
> > initial point
>
> > > > > Once it was established as a line 15 mi (IIRC) south of
> > Spruce
> > > > Street in
> > > > > Philadelphia
> > > >
> > > > you probably do recall correctly
> > > > as it was to be 15 miles south of the southernmost point of
> > > > philadelphia at that time
> > > > but how did you arrive at spruce street for it
> > > > & what part of spruce street if you can say
> > > >
> > > >
> > > My error, it wasn't Spruce bur rather South Street, then known
> > as Cedar
> > > Street (and I used to live in Philly, no lessl shoulda known
> > better).
> > > Anyway, prior to Mason and Dixon's arrival in Philly, the joint
> > commission
> > > of PA and MD reps had stipulated with input from city officials
> > that the
> > > "southernmost point in the city" would be the north wall of a
> > house on the
> > > south side of Cedar (now South) Street near the corner of
> > Second Street. The
> > > constant latitude would be an E-W line 15 miles south of this
> > point. Of
> > > course, because the Delaware River flows SWerly here, Mason
> > and Dixon had to
> > > survey a course due west from the southernmost point, far
> > enough to be west
> > > of the presumed place where the New Castle Arc would drop
> > below the West
> > > Line (the point that should've become PADEMD but did not
> > because of the
> > > problem of The Wedge) and then drop 15 miles due south to
> > mark the latitude
> > > of the West Line. (This became the "Post Mark'd West," which
> > was actually
> > > within the 12-mile New Castle Arc; Mason and Dixon had to
> > proceed west from
> > > there tp begin the actual PAMD West Line at the Arc limit.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > (minus the land enclosed by the New Castle arc, of
> > course),
> > > > > there was a real concern that the MD-VA line (the right bank
> > of
> > > > the Potomac)
> > > > > might actually swing so far north that it would extend north
> > of
> > > > the MD-PA
> > > > > boundary. Now *that* would have been interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > So what is the speculation here as to how that situation
> > might
> > > > have been
> > > > > equitably resolved among VA-MD-PA?
> > > >
> > > > it might have been equitably resolved the same way kymotn
> > was
> > > > resolved
> > > > which was for the surveyors to just follow the agreed specs
> > > > whatever happened
> > > > thus producing in that case the kentucky bend exclave
> > > > & in our speculation a similarly detached western md exclave
> > > > as you anticipate below
> > > >
> > > > > VA was supposed to have the lands south
> > > > > of the Potomac; but if the river flowed north of 44 deg
> > latitude,
> > > >
> > > > actually if the river flowed anywhere north of the latitude
> > agreed in
> > > > 1760 as you describe it above
> > > > or in other words mason & dixons 39d43m17s6
> > > > aka mdn of today
> > > > for example 39d43m15s521 nad27 at mdne
> > > > then it would have done as you say here below
> > > >
> > > > > it would
> > > > > have punctured PA and cut off eastern MD from western
> > MD,
> > > > creating a large
> > > > > enclave. How else could this have been resolved?
> > > >
> > > > i suppose a particularly generous & whimsical pa mightve
> > given
> > > > to md the part of itself that wouldve fallen south of the
> > potomac
> > > > & thus produce a sausage chain of 3 mary lands
> > > > connected only by 2 mdmdpava tristate quadripoints
> > > >
> > > However, I wonder whether Virginia would have interceded and
> > actually
> > > claimed the land south of the Potomac that under these
> > circumstances would
> > > have been north of the Mason Dixon Line and therefore
> > arguably in PA? Just
> > > think, if the commissioners had said 17 miles instead of 15
> > miles south of
> > > the southernmost point in Philadelphia, we would have had
> > this very problem.
>
> ok so i have returned in the interim to the question of how mason &
> dixon got to their starting point
> & tho i cant reconcile various conflicting latitude figures
> i have determined from some online sources that the mentioned house
> on the south side of south street near second street belonged to
> thomas plumstead & joseph huddle at the time
> & i am hoping this extra detail may be enough to find the house in
> question
> or its successor
> even if it isnt marked today with a historical plaque
>
> but that is only preliminary point 1
>
> in the meantime
> i have also zeroed in on the second preliminary point mentioned above
> situated about 30 or 31 miles due west of the first one
> on the john harlan farm near the forks of the brandywine
> a point actually marked by mason & dixon
> by a monument still known today as the stargazers stone
>
> so there are now at least these 2 preliminary targets
>
> but in addition i have also found some additional indications that
> the actual initial point of the mason dixon west line
> aka the post marked west
> may not have been the same point as modern mdne or demdpa
> but may actually lie some distance east of it
> as i think the above description may also suggest
>
> so there may actually be 3 preliminary mason dixon points to find
>
> but can anyone offer any further info about any of these 3 points
> before i go off looking for them all
>
>
>
>
>
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