Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Geographic anomalies
Date: Dec 30, 2000 @ 21:52
Author: David Mark (David Mark <dmark@...>)
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On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, michael donner wrote:
> welcome mats
> we are the geographic anomalies
> & glad you are enjoying & could join us
>
> i think our resident enclavologist brendan may be out of town because he is
> usually pretty quick to respond when he can
> & our special clavologist arif may also be away
> either of whom i think could have helped you bigtime here
> & probably will in short order
>
> please dont hesitate to carry on at length tho
>
> we are here because we cant get too much anyway
>
> in the meantime
> some topics like guantanamo or llivia may be fruitful to enter as a search
> term on any of the bp pages such as
> http://www.egroups.com/messages/boundarypoint
>
> st pierre is a favorite of mine too tho
>
> i see in the maritime political boundaries of the world by jrv prescott
> fig 13 3 shows french waters fully enclaved within canadian waters
>
> so st pierre & its territorial waters are nominally or technically a french
> maritime enclave within canadian maritime territory
>
> i have never heard anyone seriously claim overseas islands are exclaves tho
>
> nor islands within coastal waters either for that matter
>
> like everyone will probably say that alaska is an exclave of the usa
> but that hawaii is not an exclave of the usa
>
> is it just a matter of being on a continent rather than insular
> or must it be on the same continent
> or may it be on any contiguous continent
>
> inconsistency seems rampant & it gets pretty funny when you realize there
> probably arent & cant be any hard & fast rules or definitions
>
> add to this the fact that both clave words have both more technical & more
> general or even ignorant uses
>
> like if st pierre is not a true exclave of france because it is an island
> then is french guyana a truer exclave of france for being on a continent
> & is ceuta a better exclave of spain for being on a contiguous continent
> & gibraltar an even better exclave of britain for being homeocontinent
>
> i will look forward to hearing more on these entertaining topics tho
>
> best for now
> m
>
>
> >
> >Colleagues,
> >
> >Please be advised that this message is fairly long. If I voilate
> >some list-etiquette because of this, please let me know and
> >it won't be repeated.
> >
> >I only recently found your community on the net, but I have
> >truly enjoyed browsing the message archive.
> >
> >Although tripoints certainly is an interesting feature, I should
> >like to have some input on enclaves and exclaves.
> >
> >We can probably agree on some definition of the words 'enclave'
> >and 'exclave', so let me extend the discussion to other interesting
> >geographic anomalies as well.
> >
> >JUNGHOLZ
> >For quite some time I have wondered about the status of Jungholz,
> >so thank you for the recent clarification on this matter. I shall look
> >forward to the forthcoming reports from the single connection point.
> >
> >LLIVIA, CAMPIONE D'ITALIA, BAARLE-HERTOG, BUESINGEN
> >These are fairly wellknown exclaves. Do you discuss them at all,
> >and if so, would anyone have any interesting links or maps?
> >
> >MOUNT ATHOS
> >Is this an enclave? How much political independence is required
> >for us to consider a territory an enclave? By the way, does complete
> >maritime exclusion count, or do we only concern ourselves with
> >at least partly landlocked entities?
> >
> >ST PIERRE ET MIQUELON
> >Speaking of maritime exclusion, do we consider the small french
> >islands just off the east coast of Canada an exclave?
> >
> >GUANTANMO BASE
> >Guantanamo is an american naval base on Cuba. Does anyone
> >have any interesting input?
> >
> >CASES OF EXCLAVES WITHIN EXCLAVES
> >Baarle-Hertog is a well-known example of the extremely rare case, where
> >exclaves exist within exclaves. There is allegedly another case in Oman.
> >Does anyone have any information on this? By the way, did you know
> >that there is at least one Dutch exclave within the main territory of
> >Belgium in the vicinity of Baarle? I'll scan a map and put it here if anyone
> >
> >has interest in this fact.
> >
> >LITHUANIA
> >Is there, or is there not, a lithuanian exclave within Belarus?
> >
> >THE VATICAN
> >Does anyone have a *good* map of the Vatican? I'd like to be able to
> >see precisely where the border is.
> >
> >CYPRUS
> >There seems to exist at least two british military bases, constituting
> >independent territories, on Cyprus, and at least one turk-cypriotic
> >exclave on the north-west coast of the island. Information, anyone?
> >
> >CEUTA, MELILLA
> >Does anyone have information or good maps of the two spanish
> >exclaves on the moroccan coast?
> >
> >NEUTRAL ZONES
> >What neutral zones do we know of? Are there neutral zones close to
> >Gibraltar, Ceuta and Melilla? And what happened to the rombic shaped
> >neutral zone in the desert between Saudi Arabia and Iraq? Is it still
> >there?
> >
> >IRELAND
> >Was there ever an irish exclave within the territory of Northern Ireland?
> >I have a map that would suggest such a case, but it may well be a
> >badly produced map. Can anyone clarify this case?
> >
> >HISTORIC GEOGRAPHIC ANOMALIES
> >
> >Do you concern yourself at all with historic enclaves? As the supply of
> >living enclaves and exclaves is finite, why not look into some not-too-
> >long-gone cases?
> >
> >WEST-BERLIN
> >Well, Berlin (West), surely the most well-known exclave of the near past.
> >But did you know that there were several sub-exclaves off Berlin, i. e.
> >areas within East-German territory belonging to West-Berlin? I have
> >found Eiskeller, Steinstuecken (connected to West-Berlin with a corridor
> >in 1971 or 1972, I think) and Falkenhagener Wiese. Were there others?
> >What are their stories? Does anyone know? I have a wonderful russian
> >map that outlines those sub-exclaves and I'll scan it if anyone is
> >interested.
> >
> >ZARA or ZADAR
> >Zara was an italian exclave on the coast of Croatia, now called Zadar.
> >Does anyone have any information or maps?
> >
> >PORKALA
> >Porkala was a large Soviet military base on the Finish south coast.
> >I think the area was rented by the Soviets as part of the peace treaty
> >following the second world war. Information, anyone?
> >
> >DANZIGER FREISTAAT
> >Does anyone have any information on the State of Danzig, which existed
> >between the world wars? Good maps?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Mats
>
>
>
>
>
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