Thanks Mats. I find your postulates very convincing. Until we find
out something else, of course.
What strikes me is your guess that at one time a wet condominium
existed (just as it exists right now), but that the islands were
alotted to one of the two states. Which is exactly the opposite of my
guess of the situation at Ile de la Conference, where the river is
divided, but the island is a condominium.
Do you base your assumption that the islands are nowadays part of the
condominium on the literature in your possession? It would indeed be
much more practical.
By the way: Everything I know about the Emmerich protocols is from
Wolfgang's documents.
And I know of at least one road on the border of the Netherlands and
Germany, that has the name "Neutral Road". But I suspect this has
nothing to do with a possible dry condominium there. Brendan's guess
that the dry condo might be Moresnet stands a good chance of being
right.
Peter S.
--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., Mats Hessman <blofeld_es@y...> wrote:
> Colleagues,
>
> Based on the "Grenzvermessung Deutschland-Luxemburg..." it seems
> possible to throw forward the following postulates:
>
> The delu condominuim seems to have it's origin in the Main Document
of
> the Treaty of Vienna following the Congress of Vienna 1815, which
states
> that some (particularly wet) bordes between Pussia and the
Netherlands shall
> be equally owned by the two states. This goes for the current wet
border
> (Mosel-Sauer-Our), and for at least one unnamed road, and maybe for
> the Ribbach as well.
>
> The Main Document was a broad treaty, stating that the specifics
should
> be sorted out by several future comissions-to-be-formed.
>
> The Prussian-Netherlands Border Commission draws on the Treaty of
> Vienna, and states in the Treaty of Aachen 1816 at least the
following:
>
> - Mosel, Sauer and Our are jointly and equally owned by Prussia and
> the Netherlands.
>
> - Islands within these waters belong to either of the states, and
are thus
> not condominial.
>
> - The community of Vianden shall not be divided, hence the dry
border
> east of the community.
>
> Then there is the Protocol of Emmerich of 1816 (?, Peter?). This is
a
> riddle,
> because it does not mention the condominium situation at all. The
> protocol mainly concerns the separation of the islands of Mosel-
Sauer-Our,
> and specifically states that the border between the states follows
the
> main channel of the waters.
>
> How to interpret this contradiction?
>
> Some help in interpreting this comes from the fact that when the
Reich
> approached Luxemburg in the late thirties on a dissolvement of the
> condominium,
> Luxemburg answered that it was not sure that this was a bilateral
question,
> since possibly all the parties of the Treaty of Vienna would have
to be
> consulted. This suggest, I think, that at least the Treaty of
Vienna, and
> possibly the Treaty of Aachen supersedes the Protocol of Emmerich,
> at least in the minds of the Luxemburgers. Then the second World War
> intervened before an agreement could be reached.
>
> In 1980 to 1984 the border was measured anew, and "refreshed". The
> following seems to be true:
>
> - There are two contigious parts of the condominium; north of
Vianden and
> south of Vianden.
>
> - The "ends" of the condominia (the "trilines") are straight lines.
>
> - The condominium is limited by the line where land and water meet
at
> normal water height (Mittelwasserstand).
>
> - There are dry parts of the condominium; several dams (large and
tiny),
> locks, power plants, bridges, bridge fundaments and other
installations.
>
> - The condominium extends below and above ground, in the same way
> as ordinary borders do.
>
> - The islands are now part of the condominium. This is based on
> praticality. Several of the islands mentioned in the Protocol of
Emmerich
> exist no more, and others have formed.
>
> - The borders are amply marked. There are primary (52 pairs),
secondary
> and tertiary border stones. At some bridges there are brass plates,
at
> others tin plates as shown in Wolfgang's excellent document. Where
the
> border traverses dry ground, such as at dams and locks and some
bridges,
> there are small cast iron circular plates that Peter has shown us in
> previous
> messages. There is also a handful of metal bolts at selected places.
>
> Mats