thank you maestro
you are thoughtful as well as careful
about all these several distinct considerations
& what you recognize as an obsessive urge for precision
is just the most delicious part of the game of trypointing
dont you agree
for we are after all trying to reach an actual point in every case
are we not
rather than just some vague notion of having sort of been in a
general neighborhood
indeed why come so far if only to poop out in the very moment of
truth
especially with something as awesome as a border cross
well i imagine you agree with this
& i do follow you completely here too
except i believe
we dont in fact know if the position of the x mark was ever really
measured
nor if the reference markers relate to this x rather than to some
other point upon or around the marker
such as its center or vertex or whatever
we do know the cross symbol is not centered on the marker
which is immediate cause for concern
if not outright doubt
nor is this cross an actual schematic of the border conjunction
which we know is shaped more like the letter k than the letter x
& on top of & despite all that
as you also point out
we do have the reference markers & bearings & exact distances
that could easily settle the question once & for all
without resorting to extraordinary arguments etc etc
so unless someone is afraid of checking their certainty
which is really all i am proposing to do anyway
rather than challenging anyones opinion
i believe a 100 foot rigid tape measure
tho not so cheap btw
should do the trick here
just as well as or better than it should at say mdvawv or czplsk
happily trypointing isnt really about arguing
but only about seeking & finding the best available truth
i am confident we will recognize it when we have really reached it
& we are already so close to completing our diligence
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Stavro Blofeld
<blofeld_es@y...> wrote:
>
> --- aletheia kallos <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
>
> > but i will bring my tape measure to be sure
> > if you havent checked it
>
> This is a very interesting question; i. e. is the
> boundary cross really at the center of the X-mark in
> the 110-rock on top of Sorgschrofen?
>
> As I see it, the following scenario is at least
> plausible.
>
> The border was agreed on in, let's say, general terms
> in the treaty. The wording was something like this:
> The boundary cross is at the highest peak of
> Steinberg.
> (See http://jungholz.enclaves.org for a memory refresh
> of the treaty text.)
>
> After a while marker 110 was placed at some random
> spot on or near the "highest peak".
>
> More than 150 years passed.
>
> Man was given laser measurement equipment, and along
> with that came an obsessive urge for precision.
>
> So, a number of geodetic reference markers were
> placed, the position of the X-mark was measured, and
> it's coordinate was entered into the official boundary
> description.
>
> If you are with me, and you agree with me, then thus
> far we must accept the X-mark as the true cross (pun
> not intended), since it defined itself.
>
> But there is evidence that at least the looks, if not
> even the shape, of the 110-rock has changed at least
> once in the past few decades. Then, if it has been
> shifted, or if a new coat of paint has been applied
> by, say, not too careful extra workers, *after* it was
> measured, the position of the cross is in question.
>
> There is also the subtle question, raised by "m" as I
> remember, whether the X-mark or the actual *top* of
> the 110-rock is the correct spot, but what is said
> above applies in both cases.
>
> My input to the latter disussion would be that there
> is reason to believe that the X-mark is actually
> intended to define the spot. I have come to understand
> that this manner of marking a border is quite common
> in mountainous areas in central Europe. ATLI, which
> has been discussed here recently, contains a
> substantial number of markers cut directly into the
> rock ("Felsmarken"), as does ATDE. There are also a
> few at CHIT-Campione, and most likely others
> elsewhere.
> However, an amateur measurment, conducted even with a
> cheap tape measure from some american superstore,
> should settle this question.
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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