Subject: Re: Border rivers
Date: Feb 20, 2001 @ 08:00
Author: peter.smaardijk@and.com (peter.smaardijk@...)
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Hello,

I signed up to BoundaryPoint a couple of weeks ago. I'm very
interested in all kinds of boundary stuff, like enclaves, weird
boundaries, etc. I thought I'd write in about this photograph, having
been in the Kaliningrad province last year and having bought a 1:200
000 topo map there.

My guess is that the river is the river Lava (this is the Russian
name; the Polish name is Lyna, with an "l with stroke", and the German
name is Alle). I don't think it's the Stroga Barycka (the o having an
acute accent), because a) I see a wooded area, and the border at the
Lava fits this (at the Stroga Barycka, the countryside is open), b)
the river bank is fairly high, which coincides with the elevation
lines on the map at the Lava, but not with those at the Stroga
Barycka, and c) The Lava is, where it crosses the border, about 40 m
wide, whereas the Stroga Barycka is a very small stream. One of the
advantages of Russian topo maps is the fact that rivers have sometimes
marks to them, telling you the width and depth on that point, as well
as the soil structure of the river bed (e.g. stony, sandy, etc.). One
such mark, upstream in Poland near Bartoszyce, states that the Lava is
35 m wide there, and another, downstream in Russia, says the river is
45 m wide (this is past the reservoir of Pravdinsk).

My personal guess is that the border runs behind the guard.

Another personal guess for the reason that this river crosses the
border at (more or less) right angles is that the Polish-Russian
border was drawn after WW2 rather arbitrary. On a map it looks
slightly bent. On closer examination, there are some smaller curves in
it. I don't know what the drawing of this boundary was based on
(anyone else has ideas about this?), but normally any boundary that
has a more 'natural' origin follows, rather than crosses, any sort of
natural border like a river. The most extreme example is, of course,
the ruler-made straight boundary, that doesn't follow any natural
water course.

All the best from the Netherlands

Peter Smaardijk


--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...> wrote:
> Using maps of Kaliningrad at 1:500 000 and 1:200 000, the village
of
> Osmre-Bardo is at 20d59' E 54d21'N and staddles a river called
Smroo[?]a
> Barytska, which flows north and is a tributary of the Prabda River
also
> flowing north, to the west.
> The village is 15km NE of the polish town of Bartoshntse(?).
> Thus the border is not the river itself, but 90degrees to the river,
but it
> is not clear if the border is behind the guard or behind the
photographer.
> Brendan
>
>
> >From: "Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen" <jesniel@i...>
> >Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@y...
> >To: <BoundaryPoint@y...>
> >Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Border rivers
> >Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:30:04 +0100
> >
> >Well I am looking for a list where the river = border.
> >
> >LIke Danube forming the border of Bulgaria-Romania, but also the
Orange
> >River which forms the border of South Africa and Namibia, even if
the river
> >is entirely South African.
> >
> >Talking about rivers crossing the border 90degrees , I cannot get
the
> >picture of Poland-Russia border posted at my site and on
>
>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20010206/wl/200
1_02_07t222048z_01_war02d_rtridsp_2_poland_russia.html
> >
> >when I compare that watercourse with a map.
> >
> >Jesper
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...>
> >To: <jesniel@I...>
> >Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 2:28 AM
> >Subject: Re: Border rivers
> >
> >
> > > Do you only want rivers that the border runs along the thalweg
or
> >midstream
> > > of, or, for sake of argument, does ANY watercourse that crosses
a
> >boundary,
> > > even at 90degrees to it, form a part of the border? You may need
to be a
> > > little more specific in your wording.
> > > Brendan
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen <jesniel@I...>
> > > >Reply-To: Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen <jesniel@I...>
> > > >To: INT-BOUNDARIES@J...
> > > >Subject: Border rivers
> > > >Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:50:49 +0100
> > > >
> > > >Hello Colleagues
> > > >
> > > >I am looking for an online list of rivers forming borders.
> > > >
> > > >I think their might be one in Gideon Bigers Encyclopedia but I
don't
> >have
> > > >it avialable.
> > > >
> > > >Jesper
> > > >http://www.borderpictures.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>_________________________________________________
________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
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> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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