Subject: Re: Four Color Maps
Date: Dec 10, 2003 @ 18:23
Author: m06079 ("m06079" <barbaria_longa@...>)
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--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> When I sent the URL of the purported federal enclaves, I was
looking at the
> "large" view that shows all four of them. I have since gotten to
the shallow
> bottom of Mississippi Sound. There are no federal enclaves at all!
>
> The map depicting them was published in 1970 and shows the
application of the
> Submerged Lands Act's 3nm line, thus producing federal enclaves.
Litigation
> continued, however.
>
> In 1985, the Supremes found that Mississippi Sound is entirely
internal waters
> on historic grounds. There were several arguments to support this
notion, but
> the clincher was that the Supremes themselves had extended the LAMS
boundary all
> the way across its western lobe in 1906.
>
> There is a thoroughly illustrated 91-page treatise on the theories
behind the
> delimitation of seaward boundaries at
> http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/shalowitz/Part_two.pdf . It is
fascinating.

good to be reminded of this even if only about 3 pages are relevant
since it does indeed explain & dispose of all the apparent anomalies
& inconsistencies we have been observing
indeed all except for the question about the territorial waters of
the state of washington
where we began
& where we are still seeking the proof that closing lines at the
heads of georgia & juan de fuca straits force the entire american
portion of the enclosed area into the state of washington
& out of the federal domain
even where the enclosed waters extend more than 3nm from the coasts
as you suggest at the end of message 12561

& as i would be glad to buy & have finally resolved
if you could show the proof


& glad to also see here the confirmation that the 2 extra almsus
tripoints are indeed illusory
& your holmesian explanation for the blunder too


wish i could see the missing final illustration tho
since the text & caption suggest it may elucidate the position of the
elusive lamsus tripoint
one of the last few blank spots among the 85 american tripoints that
have been confirmed to exist


>
> I, too, was amazed and amused by the projection of the ALMS
boundary seaward
> right through one of the supposed federal enclaves. I think this
happened as
> follows: The original map must have been drawn long ago, when the
seas were
> considered worthless oblivion. The cartographers simply projected
the boundary
> far enough to separate the two states' respective off-shore
islands. Perhaps it
> should have been said that the depiction of the boundary off-shore
was for
> unofficial reference only. Then, after the Submerged Lands Act, a
new
> generation of cartographers went to their drafting tables with
compasses in hand
> to draw all of the appropriate arcs. Since they probably didn't
know where to
> draw the ALMS boundary southward of the supposed federal enclave,
they avoided
> the issue by just leaving their predecessors' line where it
was. "Blunder" is
> the perfect word for it!
>
> There are indeed no federal enclaves in Chandeleur Sound or any
other Louisiana
> waters. Louisiana's seaward boundary is entirely resolved by
Supreme Court
> decrees. It's a good thing, too, because the state is disappearing
into the
> Gulf of Mexico at the incredible rate of TWO ACRES PER HOUR! This
results from
> a combination of subsidence and erosion.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "m06079" <barbaria_longa@h...>
> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:01 PM
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Four Color Maps
>
>
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
> > <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > > Comments inserted below:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "m06079" <barbaria_longa@h...>
> > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:21 PM
> > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Four Color Maps
> > >
> > >
> > > > actually the usgs is quite inconsistent about showing the 3
mile
> > > > limits
> > > > & also about showing county & state lines in the sea
> > > >
> > > > it does close the mouths of chesapeake & delaware & new york &
> > cape
> > > > cod bays
> > > > but not of florida bay
> > > > despite the notorious shallowness of the latter
> > >
> > > Florida Bay is not internal waters (so say the Supremes), so it
has
> > no closing
> > > line. It is subject only to the acrs of the three-league line
from
> > the mainland
> > > and the Keys, as depicted nicely at http://tinyurl.com/yd62 .
> > >
> > > > it even shows a bit of the 3nm line within the otherwise
> > undoubtedly
> > > > internal waters of mississippi in mississippi sound
> > > > yikes
> > > > thats right
> > > > a little enclave of federal waters within mississippi waters
> > > > hard to believe
> > >
> > > The map at http://tinyurl.com/yd7a shows three such federal
> > enclaves within
> > > Mississippi waters and one more surrounded by Mississippi and
> > Alabama waters!
> >
> > why thank you
> > & since one good raise deserves another
> > pan out one more level & you get 4 for the price of 3 or of 1
> >
> > yes thats 4 exclaves of american federal seas embedded in internal
> > states waters folks
> > 3 enclaved in mississippi & 1 divided by alms
> > a division which in itself is of course impossible
> > since
> > if these internal federal seas are really federal & really real
> > alms must be interrupted & parted by them into alus & msus
> > & yikes
> > must thus produce a pair of new almsus tripoints
> > rather than merely being superimposed by these seas as shown
> >
> > for that much is certainly a blunder
> > dont you agree
> >
> > as much as i would like to believe you have just brought home
alive
> > the long overlooked 86th & 87th american federal tripoints here
> > i just cant go out & ring the liberty bell on them yet
> >
> >
> > but do you believe your eyes in any of these cases
> >
> > then why shouldnt you expect the same regime to be applied to say
> > pamlico sound or long island sound or even puget sound
> > or any other sound or nonsound
> >
> > anyway i would love to know the ultimate disposition of this mess
> > or even just any further steps in that direction
> >
> > >
> > > > ...
> > > > it shows almost none of the 3 mile limit in louisiana
> > >
> > > The Official Map of Louisiana 2000 ("Best Map" in 2001 Avenza-
> > MAPublisher Map
> > > Competition) does show the state's entire seaward boundary,
> > marked "State
> > > Waters" and "Federal Waters" on its two sides.
> >
> > nice map
> >
> > no holes in chandeleur sound i see
> >
> >
> > The boundary is visible on a
> > > low-resolution version at
> > > http://www.avenza.com/MPcomp/2001/maps/GenPurp_Snead.jpg .
> > >
> > > > ...
> > >
> > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >