> ----------
> From: acroorca2002[SMTP:orc@...]
> Reply To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:02 PM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Hancok, MD
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Flynn, Kevin"
> <flynnk@r...> wrote:
> > A very interesting what-if regarding this narrow neck of MD:
> >
> > Before Mason and Dixon set out on their survey, Lord
> Baltimore's
> > representatives believed the PA-MD line of latitude would be
> farther north.
> > Once it was established as a line 15 mi (IIRC) south of Spruce
> Street in
> > Philadelphia
>
> you probably do recall correctly
> as it was to be 15 miles south of the southernmost point of
> philadelphia at that time
> but how did you arrive at spruce street for it
> & what part of spruce street if you can say
>
>
My error, it wasn't Spruce bur rather South Street, then known as Cedar
Street (and I used to live in Philly, no lessl shoulda known better).
Anyway, prior to Mason and Dixon's arrival in Philly, the joint commission
of PA and MD reps had stipulated with input from city officials that the
"southernmost point in the city" would be the north wall of a house on the
south side of Cedar (now South) Street near the corner of Second Street. The
constant latitude would be an E-W line 15 miles south of this point. Of
course, because the Delaware River flows SWerly here, Mason and Dixon had to
survey a course due west from the southernmost point, far enough to be west
of the presumed place where the New Castle Arc would drop below the West
Line (the point that should've become PADEMD but did not because of the
problem of The Wedge) and then drop 15 miles due south to mark the latitude
of the West Line. (This became the "Post Mark'd West," which was actually
within the 12-mile New Castle Arc; Mason and Dixon had to proceed west from
there tp begin the actual PAMD West Line at the Arc limit.
> > (minus the land enclosed by the New Castle arc, of course),
> > there was a real concern that the MD-VA line (the right bank of
> the Potomac)
> > might actually swing so far north that it would extend north of
> the MD-PA
> > boundary. Now *that* would have been interesting.
> >
> > So what is the speculation here as to how that situation might
> have been
> > equitably resolved among VA-MD-PA?
>
> it might have been equitably resolved the same way kymotn was
> resolved
> which was for the surveyors to just follow the agreed specs
> whatever happened
> thus producing in that case the kentucky bend exclave
> & in our speculation a similarly detached western md exclave
> as you anticipate below
>
> > VA was supposed to have the lands south
> > of the Potomac; but if the river flowed north of 44 deg latitude,
>
> actually if the river flowed anywhere north of the latitude agreed in
> 1760 as you describe it above
> or in other words mason & dixons 39d43m17s6
> aka mdn of today
> for example 39d43m15s521 nad27 at mdne
> then it would have done as you say here below
>
> > it would
> > have punctured PA and cut off eastern MD from western MD,
> creating a large
> > enclave. How else could this have been resolved?
>
> i suppose a particularly generous & whimsical pa mightve given
> to md the part of itself that wouldve fallen south of the potomac
> & thus produce a sausage chain of 3 mary lands
> connected only by 2 mdmdpava tristate quadripoints
>
However, I wonder whether Virginia would have interceded and actually
claimed the land south of the Potomac that under these circumstances would
have been north of the Mason Dixon Line and therefore arguably in PA? Just
think, if the commissioners had said 17 miles instead of 15 miles south of
the southernmost point in Philadelphia, we would have had this very problem.
One pre-Mason Dixon survey in the 1730s, I believe, actually measured out a
17 1/2-mile southern march from Philly.
>
> > As noted here, Mason and Dixon breathed a sigh of relief when
> the river's
> > course again turned to the south before reaching their line.
>
> interesting
> can you give the source of this sigh
>
>
Yes. Page 133, "Drawing the Line: How Mason and Dixon Surveyed the
Most Famous Border in America," by Edwin Danson, (c)2001 John WIley & Sons.
"Mason was concerned about the westerly direction they may have to take the
next season and was worried they may be forced to cross the Potomac River.
If this were so, then they would have two problems. Measuring across the
wide river at an oblique angle would be difficult; but more importantly, the
Potomac formed the border between Maryland and Virginia. If it transpired
that the true latitude they were following crossed south of the Potomac,
Penn's legal boundary of constant latitude would be impossible and Maryland
would become divided. The political and legal ramifications would be
dire..."
"The next morning, they all set off for North Mountain to spy out
the land... From the summit, they saw the northern loop of the great river,
about ten miles distant. Much to Mason's relief, they estimated that the
West Line would pass some two miles north of the Potomac, near Hancock,
Maryland....
(Then page 146:) "Near Hancock, Maryland, Mason and Shelby's
estimated course for the West Line, seen from North Mountain the previous
October, was substantiated when the survey team passed a scant 1 1/2 miles
north of the Potomac River."